The Narcissist and Self-Loathing

In the comments section of the post on self-esteem vs. self-respect I made this statement,

I have been witness to both. I have seen what were obviously real periods of self-loathing by Ns. I have also seen the theatrical versions. The "feel" of the fake version is quite different to the observant witness.

I was asked to explain the difference between the faked self-loathing and the real demonstrations. I will try.

First, it is important to not mistake a malignant narcissist's self-loathing as being connected with remorse. Do they have regrets? Oh, yes. But not for your sake. Only for their own sake. They only regret not getting what they think they deserve.

Sam Vaknin, the most verbose of narcissists, contends that narcissists are, "immersed in self-loathing and self-pity. He is under duress and distress most of his waking life." Ref. Cry me a frakking river. Life is tough when you're always on the run from reality. If you read Vaknin's answer to the question "Is the Narcissist Ever Sorry?" (link above) you get treated to an eyeful of self-pity and a wide dodge of the general question itself. Whatever.

Here's the deal. A malignant narcissist's life sucks. I'll grant Vaknin's point on that. But his self-loathing, however briefly experienced, is earned. It is the narcissist's just desserts for being so despicable in his treatment of others and even how he treats himself. I wish a narcissist was constantly tortured by self-loathing, but the truth is, they aren't. The narcissist's self-loathing is very intimately connected with self-pity. They only really hate themselves when they aren't getting what they want! The narcissist's sense of self-loathing is very quickly turned into being the fault of someone else or the fault of circumstance. In practical reality this means they don't truly feel self-loathing. It is a fleeting thing instantly transferred into his wallow of self-pity. Boo hoo. Never waste your pity on a narcissist...they have plenty of that for themselves.

Here is what the evidence tells me: narcissists never feel self-loathing to any real depth or degree. I believe it is more of a dispassionate observation they make about themselves devoid of the crushing emotion we associate with the term.

I saw a very good demonstration of this in a movie recently. It was a period piece titled, "Daniel Deronda". A movie I liked, by the way. There are two characters in the film who are narcissists. Well, one is most definitely a narcissist...the other is well on her way to being totally corrupted. The female, younger and very narcissistic character, Gwendolyn Harleth, more than once dispassionately admits to her heartlessness, her corrupt character, her utter selfishness, her abuse and use of others. It was intriguing to see her admit to these flaws of character without a tinge of discernable shame or remorse. Or any real emotion. It was just a fact she was stating with no more emotion than we would quote statistics. This I found a very accurate representation of the utterly self-involved. I have seen this type of admission in narcissists which has always lacked emotional depth. It is just an undeniable fact that the narcissist may sometimes be willing to admit. They are not feeling the pain of having inflicted pain on you even if you get such an admission from them.

If they do feel the pain of self-loathing it is inextricably linked to their own self-interests and their ever-present self-pity. It is about how they are down on their luck. It is about how they can't support their sense of grandiosity at the moment and therefore are feeling persecuted by the universe. It is about how unfair everyone and every thing is and how the narcissist doesn't have what they deserve. Of course, in their minds they deserve what they want, not what they get.

Okay. So, down to the difference between a real demonstration of self-loathing and a faked one. In my opinion you can detect the difference between the two in the level of emotion involved in the expression. Is there a lack of emotion in the admission? Or are you being treated to a full display of tears, weeping and gnashing of teeth?

The more emotion displayed the bigger fake you're witnessing.

The more dispassionate the expression, the closer you are to seeing a narcissist acknowledging a truth about themselves.

But, again, this self-loathing is greatly tempered for the narcissist. He or she has powerful defenses against truly feeling the depth this emotion would call forth in someone who isn't a malignant narcissist. The narcissist's ever-present self-pity and sense of absolute entitlement blunt their ability to really feel the self-loathing they should be experiencing. They relate to it as we relate to a scientific fact. It is an intellectual assent to the truth but it never gets down to the seat of their emotions. It can't. They have rendered themselves unable to truly feel anything. Like Vaknin says somewhere else, narcissists confuse their wants with emotions. That simple statement hints at the enormous mis-wiring the brain of the narcissist has been subject to. Let's be clear...this re-wiring was a job the narcissist did on their own brain. Temper your pity with that fact.

The upshot of this is that the narcissist never truly experiences self-loathing in the way we would. It is a very different experience for the malignant narcissist than for you or me. When a decent person with an uncorrupted conscience feels self-loathing it is intensely excruciating because the decent person won't allow themself to shift the blame to someone or something else. They have to feel the full force of the emotion. Hence, we are actually capable of feeling the full spectrum of painful emotions normally associated with the term 'self-loathing'. Which is one reason I spit on Vaknin's appeal to the 'pain' the narcissist is always in. I only wish he was in more pain.

The narcissist, of course, is sure that no one has ever felt pain they way they feel it. They have no idea that only a decent, good-hearted and empathetic person with a fully functioning conscience is capable of feeling the depths of human emotions be they happy or negative emotions. He gives himself far too much credit for being able to feel anything. And there is no nobilty in feeling self-pity. Anyone can feel sorry for themselves. Only decent people can rise above self-pity without trampling someone else to get there. The narcissist assuages his self-pity by finding another source, i.e. victim, to give him what he wants.

I'll quote a larger portion of Vaknin from the same reference above,

But he has a diminished capacity to empathise, so he rarely feels sorry for what he does. He almost never puts himself in the shoes of his "victims". Sure, he feels distressed because he is intelligent enough to realise that something is wrong with him in a major way. He compares himself to others and the outcome is never favourable. His grandiosity is one of the defence mechanisms that he uses to cover up for this disagreeable state of things. But its efficacy is partial and intermittent. The rest of the time, the narcissist is immersed in self-loathing and self-pity. He is under duress and distress most of his waking life. In a vague way, he is also sorry for those upon whom he inflicts the consequences of his personality disorder. He knows that they are not happy and he understands that it has something to do with him. Mostly, he uses even this to aggrandise himself: poor things, they can never fully understand him, they are so inferior. It is no wonder that they are so depressed. (from Narcissism FAQ #14: Is the Narcissist Ever Sorry)

The stench from this load of self-serving crap is damn near overwhelming. Please read his words carefully. Even though he uses the term "self-loathing" there is not one description of true self-loathing in his self-serving answer. It is all self-pity. The most he hates himself for is that he's in pain from his lack of getting what he wants. Your pain? It is a vague concept to him. It is nearly not an entity of any form to his mind. It is incidental at best.

My conclusion of this topic is that the narcissist is completely incapable of true self-loathing. The only pain he'll let himself feel is the pain of being denied what the selfish little three year old wants. Take away his toy and watch the tears and tantrums and self-pity begin.

He saves all his loathing for the poor victims of his predations and abuses. He can loathe you utterly...meaning having complete disdain and disregard for you as a person. As for himself, he only loathes momentarily...right before he shifts into a full blown pity party. Big, fat babies.

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An Important Distinction: Self-love vs. Self-respect

While I was several weeks into my hiatus this summer a new reader of this blog posed a great question I couldn't resist making an effort at answering despite my being on vacation. Because the question was in the comment section of an old post I thought I would re-post it...and my response...here on the front page. I think it was substantive enough of an answer that it deserves front and center placement.

Perhaps you could write about how it is that Ns can simultaneously "love" themselves and have low self-esteem.

Self-love which is not based on self-respect is the conundrum of the malignant narcissist. This conundrum explains why they can have "low self-esteem" and yet love themselves supremely. They are breathing examples of the consequences of always putting themselves first (which is the Biblical definition of self-love i.e. the one I use.) They are the living proof that self-love doesn't translate into true self-respect and reality-based feelings of liking oneself or at least being able to live with looking at yourself in the mirror.

Some people confuse self-love as feelings of affection for oneself. That is not correct. Self-love is defined by behavior. It is comprised of the behaviors of always thinking of and acting for oneself as if you are everyone's primary concern as well as your own primary concern. As if your wants and needs should supersede anyone else's wants or needs. This is intimately linked with a huge sense of entitlement. This is a self-love which is bereft of self-respect and honest good feelings about the self because it must trample on everyone else in order to exist.

How is self-respect gained? Self-respect is the result of self-discipline (which includes self-denial and putting off gratification) with the eye to future benefit (not only for the self, but also for others) resulting from these things. Self-respect has to be earned. We have to prove to ourselves that we deserve to respect ourselves. Constructive self-discipline is anathema to the malignant narcissist. If they were self-disciplined they would likely not be malignant narcissists.

Another way we could say it is "self-control". Self-discipline is self-control. MNs only use enough self-control to keep themselves from being caught in their crimes. They use just enough self-control to make sure only their victims see Mr. Hyde come out. That is not a constructive use of self-control; neither is it a self-control with any endurance. It is short term self-control used for selfish ends. I give them no credit for their occasional use of self-control. Any use of self-control by the narcissist is, once again, all about getting them what they want. Not about doing the right thing. Their limited use of self-control for their selfish ends only further corrupts them and their environment.

The narcissist doesn't do anything in the moral realm to earn self-respect therefore they tend to loathe themselves when they are forced to moments of introspection. If you've been in a long-term relationship with a narcissist be they parent or lover you've likely witnessed at least one of these moments when they seem black with the despair of their self-loathing. You've also likely been frightened to see the depth of their spiral into the blackness of their own souls. It can evoke great pity from the decent, but the reality is those moments are the dues they are paying to their demons. Every ounce of their self-loathing is earned. They deserve to feel like the pieces of crap they are. Yet it is likely someone will intervene with the necessary praise and comfort to lift these pieces of human debris from the hell of their own making without the narcissist truly having to grapple who they are and making a determined effort to come clean.

The narcissist's dependence on the praise of others is how they try to compensate for their lack of self-respect. The unmerited praise of others never has the ring of truth to it to the ear of the despicable one. Some part of their mind tells them these people are either lacking in full information and therefore are deceived, or they want something from the narcissist. But the more forceful part of their mind overrules these concerns and laps up the unmerited praise as their due. The narcissist is constantly forced to pursue more of the cheap imitation (self-love) to overcome the lack of the genuine article (self-respect). Their bad feelings about themselves may start to surface causing them to demand that their sources of supply release some of the sweet nectar of adulation to overcome the threat of self-knowledge.

Narcissists are living proof that self-love is not something to be desired or pursued. Self-love doesn't make us happy or make us better people. SELF-RESPECT should be the goal and aim for lasting happiness, contentment and true accomplishment in the life. Self-respect means you think well enough of yourself not to mistreat yourself. It doesn't mean you think you are better than others.

The narcissist's life proves you can't possibly 'love yourself' enough to overcome or compensate for the need for self-respect.

Self-love requires no moral accomplishment. Self-respect does require moral accomplishment. Anything worth having has to be worked for. The narcissist is not willing to put forth honest and good labor to make themselves into decent people. So they settle for loving themselves above all others...you can see where that takes them. Down the path of evil...

Self-love is as over-rated in our society as self-respect is under-rated. Time to get things into their proper order.

In the movie "An American Psychopath" starring Christian Bale the psychopath's anthem was "The Greatest Love of All" by Whitney Houston. It was the song the psychopath said summed up all of the truth of life itself. "Learning to love yourself is the greatest love of all". This was one of many truths of the narcissistically psychopathic mind portrayed well in this very disturbing movie. Where did self-love take the psychopath? On the path of ultimate entitlement. An entitlement which meant that depriving others of their lives was a worthy sacrifice to his self-love.

Self-love is not a virtue. Pursuing feelings of loving yourself will make a shipwreck of your soul. The narcissist is living proof of this reality.

The Narcissist's "Self-Esteem"

True self-esteem is based on something more substantive than feelings. The self-esteem movement in this country has blundered terribly by focusing on building up feelings without any basis in substance. Kids in school are taught to feel good about themselves based on just feeling good about themselves. The idea is that if you feel good about yourself then you'll proceed into life without the impediment of insecurities. Many studies have been done that have exposed of myths of false self-esteem. Insecurities end up not being the worse thing to have.

So what is true self-esteem based on?

Accomplishment. If you are able to make yourself proud with accomplishment, you will respect yourself. Self-esteem isn't what is important. Self-respect is the issue. Teaching kids how to gain self-respect should be the goal of our educational system and parenting techniques, not this silliness of telling kids to feel good about themselves based on absolutely nothing. We end up raising big, bratty weaklings who crumble at the first collision with the real world.

One of the most important areas of life to gain accomplishments in are in the moral realm. When you are able to follow a moral course in the midst of obstacles, opposition and difficulty you can gain some serious self-respect. In fact, I'll contend that the moral realm is where the most important battles must be fought and won if you want to feel good about yourself in a way that will last. Make yourself proud by doing the hard stuff. Facing ones fears is another very important way to build true self-respect. This is also an accomplishment made in the moral sphere.

Which brings me to malignant narcissists. What have they accomplished to make themselves feel true self-respect? Not a damned thing. Yeah, I agree...narcissists have "low self-esteem". But you can't build up anyone's self-esteem by being a rah-rah section telling them to feel good about themselves "just because you're you", let alone a narcissist.

What has the narcissist accomplished in the moral sphere that would make them have true respect for themselves? That, again, would be nothing. So I believe the fact that narcissists have "low self-esteem" is a condition they have completely earned. They don't deserve to feel good about themselves. This also explains why the narcissist needs constant affirmation of their wonderfulness from their sycophants. This is why they seem to be a black-hole for praise. It doesn't matter how many times you told them yesterday that they are beautiful, wonderful, amazing, wise and smart...today is a new day and they need just as much praise today to keep them going. This is because deep down they know they haven't truly accomplished anything to feel good about themselves over.

I'm not sure when I finally had this revelation about my mother. It was some years ago. One day she confessed the truth that when she felt ugly on the outside it was a direct reflection of how she was feeling about herself morally. What she actually said was, "I feel ugly on the inside" as she stood there before looking her usual gorgeous self. A shocking confession really. As I have stated before, the objective truth about my mom's appearance is that she is an absolutely beautiful woman. Nevertheless, she would regularly go through periods of life when she felt ugly no matter how she objectively looked. This went far beyond just fishing for compliments. It was obvious she was in a depressive state during these periods. When she felt this way, compliments did very little to lift her spirits.

Her behavior has consistently borne out the truth of her confession that day many years ago. I don't remember her repeating that confession. It was just a moment of truth; a rare peek into the internal world of a narcissist. What has my mother done to feel accomplished and good about herself in the moral realm? Very little. I didn't know way back then about the malignancy of my mother's character. I was naive in the extreme. I didn't know until quite recently how my mother is a constant liar and a vile hypocrite. Knowing now what she is I do not wonder as to why she loathes herself at times. I have joined in her loathing. She is right to not feel good about herself. She has done nothing to earn her own good-will let alone mine.

The narcissist's low self-esteem is not a reason to pity them. You need to recognize they've earned their bad feelings about themselves. They can feel good about themselves the day they accomplish some heavy-lifting in the moral realm...like coming clean on their many bad acts, making restitution and showing some humility.

[Icon by lvlwing]