Friday, March 21, 2008

More Manipulation Tactics: Diversion and Evasion

I refer you from time to time back to the book, In Sheep's Clothing, because it is such a helpful little primer on how the aggressive, character-disordered people among us lead us by the nose to get what they want. Recognition of their tactics can go a long way toward helping us avoid the control and manipulation as it is happening.

Mr. Simon presents what he calls two closely related tactics, 'diversion' and 'evasion'. The first tactic is very much like what the magician does. It is how they perform sleight-of-hand. They get you to focus somewhere other than on what they are actually doing:

Manipulators use distraction and diversion techniques to keep the focus off their behavior, move us off-track, and keep themselves free to promote their self-serving agendas. Sometimes this can be very subtle. You may confront your manipulator on a very important issue only to find yourself minutes later wondering how you got on the topic you're talking about then.

He warns us that the manipulator can be very subtle with this tactic. You have to train yourself to recognize when this is happening. Back when I used to watch CourtTV (now TruTV) I started to get good at recognizing when someone on the stand was diverting from the question. The lawyers trained me to listen carefully to an answer to detect when a witness was evading the question. Often the lawyers would point out how their answer was "non-responsive", meaning, whatever the witness just said did not answer to the question. It can be entertaining to recognize when politicians play the same game of distraction and diversion from questions they don't want to get pinned down with because they would find it a political disadvantage to stake out a clear position on some matter. Train yourself to pay attention to whether or not your question is getting answered. Don't let some manipulator distract you and lead you down some other path far from the subject of their misbehavior.

The evasion tactic is:

...closely related to diversion, this is a tactic by which a manipulator tries to avoid being cornered on an issue by giving rambling, irrelevant responses to a direct question or otherwise trying to skirt an issue.

Yet again, politicians are real virtuosos at this one. If you need practice at studying this tactic just watch the politician who is trying to keep themselves from accountability. Obama has been a perfect case study on this lately with his pastor's America-bashing, white-hating sermons coming to light. Obama has been dodging, weaving, and blame-shifting all over the place as he attempts to manipulate the public into thinking that there is nothing wrong with his pastor, and nothing wrong with him for sitting in his pastor's church for the last 20 years.

A subtle, but effective form of evasion is the deliberate use of vagueness. Covert-aggressives are adept at giving vague answers to the simplest, most direct questions. You have to have a sensitive ear for this. Sometimes the vagueness is not so pronounced and you think you have an answer when in fact you don't.

Note again that this can be a very subtle tactic, and you have to train yourself to catch it. We can get tripped up this way by the manipulators we are in relationships with. They will often offer us vague answers or even promises into which we insert what we want it to mean. Not what it actually means. Which is nothing. Which brings me back to Obama. His whole campaign has been a study in vagueness. He has convinced millions he is the 2nd Coming because they think they know what he is saying as he promises 'hope' and 'change'. Those two words contain no information. Yet people insert into those vague words what they want it to mean. I have been marveling for a full year now at how people can hear nothing substantive and yet think they know what this man stands for. I am not saying, by the way, that Obama is a narcissist. I am saying he is using some tried and true manipulation tactics.

Narcissists are very often covertly-aggressive in their dealings with others. In other words, they are constantly fighting for their own way, but they are sneaky about it. We don't immediately recognize when someone is fighting with us to win. If you read under the label of "manipulation tactics" on this blog you'll find some other commonly used tactics by narcissists and other character-disordered types which are nothing more than how they covertly fight you to get what they want. Learn to recognize when you're in a fight. You can better defend yourself that way.

By the way, you may or may not have noticed how I have assiduously avoided talking politics on this blog. I intend it to remain that way. I really have no dog in this fight for the presidency this time around. So, my comments about Obama are not fueled by my giving a flying fig who wins. I am objectively watching this round of politics and seeing Obama from a dispassionate viewpoint. Just sayin'...when the shoe fits... I will not approve comments that become too political and attempt to defend one candidate or another. This ain't the venue. If you don't agree with my observations on how he's been behaving then hashing it out here won't change either of our minds. Just take this information and learn to apply it to the manipulative creeps in your own lives so you can better avoid being taken for a ride by the unscrupulous. By the way, I've seen all three candidates using these tactics. Obama is just the most recent and obvious example.

You can practice learning how to hear when someone is diverting or evading by either watching real court room action or politicians in action. Both are opportunities for practice that allow you to stand outside of the fray, not get swept up in your own emotions because no one is fighting with you or manipulating you face to face. These are a couple of safe places for batting practice. You can hone your skills so the next time you're up against a real-life manipulator you will be better prepared.

39 comments:

Anonymous said...

Another great post!

Evading and diverting are very very real, and one can develop a radar for these behaviors over time, if you just raise your level of awareness. BTW, politicians aren't the only experts at this, study your pastor in your church. Some preachers are very admirable people, others are manipulative Ns. There's a new blog devoted to how religion can be used to emotionally abuse people which is very good so far:
www.truth-makes-freedom.blogspot.com

Anonymous said...

Ahhh, evasion. How often have I been caught in that trap! Most recently, an offer to pay for my apartment, if I would stay and help out. That was preceded by an offer to pay my tuition. Yeah, in exchange for my body and soul! Once I was blind, but now I SEE.

Loving Annie said...

Anna,
This SO true. The deputy I liked used to do this CONSTANTLY, and I never understood what he was doing. I'd just get so frustrated.

He was so much fun to talk to, intelligent, seemd so genuine, so charming, so real and connected, such a GOOD guy.

Grrrrrrr. Anything but a good guy.

I asked him once "Are you interested ?" And he said with such sincereity in his voice "You KNOW I am " - and it was total bull**it.

Like when I asked him how he felt about me and he said he was emotionally, intellectually and physically attracted to me but he just couldn't act on it - YET.

Hew told me he drove by my house three times a shift.
The reality is that he drove by once every three weeks.
And when I confronted him about lying, he tried to turn it back onto me !

How could I have been so blind just because he looked so cute and the chemistry was so strong ???

All evasion, distraction, and manipulation on his part...

Your blog and LoveFraud are so helpful to read, even if way after the fact.

Otherwise, I keep blaming myself. Full of self-doubt, just like he wants me to. I remeber the charm and think it's MY fault it didn't work out. Rather than seeing all he did was lie both by commission and ommission from day one.

They never take any responsbility for their actions at all, or have any shame or remorse.

It's sickening and frightening.

Especially in someone in a position you're supposed to trust -a law enforcement officer who is high-functioning after having held the same job for 20+ years.

My radar now is very clear. I will not make the same naive or trusting mistakes again.

Actions will speak louder than words. And I will verify everything instead of taking it at face value.

I'll ask more questions, and if the answers aren't clear, I'll know I'm dealing with a con artist.

Anna Valerious said...

You sound like you really do 'get it', Annie. Good for you for informing yourself. Sounds like you'll be successful in the future at spotting the cons. Indeed, the cover that a law enforcement job would give to a con is significant and would serve to hide their operations from a good deal of people a good deal of the time. Still, even with this kind of cover it is quite doable to detect when the words and actions are in conflict. Believing actions over words when the two conflict is the way a thinking person navigates unchartered waters.

krl said...

One of the worst ManipulationDiversionEvasion things I suffered was in trying to put an issue 'on the table'...only to find that the 'discussion' ALWAYS was steered towards ME and MY 'problem'. Already hesitant and unsure of myself...(and suffering ubiquitous guilt anyway)...any 'confrontation' ended up about ME! And I would back down and think I was the crazy one.

No more. And just as one of the commentors from the last post mentioned...it wasn't until it flashed through my mind that maybe I wasn't the crazy one...maybe SHE/HE was...and started studying up on some characteristics...did I begin to take hold and dump all this shit.

Carry on. krl

Jordie said...

I had a run in with a teacher who has some 'wolf' issues. THe principal told me that this teacher has offended some parents, but is loved by others. She terrifies some kids, but the others think she is great.

What's the subtle message here?

The principal's tone suggested that I should be lenient towards this teacher because she was just 'misunderstood'. You bet she is misunderstood. She is a passive-aggressive manipulating bully who upsets genuine well-meaning people, and over-awes everyone else who has not yet recognised her behaviour as dysfunctional.

THis teacher has a tactic of making really aggressive statements, expecting parents to just give way. People are usually so shocked, they say nothing and assume they must have heard wrong. When she meets somebody, like me, who recognises bullying and calls a spade a spade, she backs down immediately and says 'she didn't really mean THAT', or 'well I wasn't referring to YOU when I said that', or other types of diversions, or....well, shall we say, lies.

My response is to just speak really plainly and refuse to back down. Her answer to that is the 'mask'. She blanks out, she's not there any more, you are talking to a robot or a waxwork. It's her way of evading the issue, and refusing to communicate. In other words, she has spoken, and she will not discuss any further.

The first time I spoke to her, it was on the phone, she got so upset with my refusal to give way to her that she hung up on me.

Principal suggested that she is much easier to talk to 'in person'. I talked to her a few days ago, and all I saw was the same behaviour, only with the benefit of seeing 'the mask' go on as soon as I stood my ground. She also terminated the interview rather abruptly after ten minutes. The equivalent of hanging up on me.

Yeah, I thought this new school was going to be fantastic, there's always one isn't there. I thought that once I knew about behavioural dysfunction it would all go away. All its done is make these people stand out in a crowd.

Now for a course on tactics, and how not to shake like a leaf whenever you have to confront bullies.

Maria said...

Boy, have I needed to read through some of the blog entries here this weekend, just to keep myself sane.

After making it plain that I need serious time off from my mother, a long time histrionic N, also addicted to methadone, which has made trying to be around her intolerable right now. I am sincerely trying to figure out a way where I can avoid completely cutting off my relationship with her, and told her I NEED TIME and she MUST GIVE IT TO ME. I told her I CANNOT TELL HER "how long" because I don't know myself. I said "please respect my wishes and understand I just can't be around you right now."

Her response, after 2 weeks, was to have her husband, my stepfather, send a Fed Ex to my husband at his office, where my stepfather asked my husband to please intercede and try to cure me of my "bizarre" and "very distorted" "fantasies" ... that neither he nor my mother have any idea why I have suddenly turned on them and they are concerned for my "mental health." Then they attached that last email to my mother, explaining how I am in pain everytime I see her sick, shaking, making up crazy stories about money (like she "lost" 3000 dollars in an envelope one day on the street, and begged to sell me some of her jewelry so my stepfather wouldn't find out).

Craziest, my husband, the one who got the Fed Ex, was the one who sat me down several years ago and warned me that everytime my mother visited, she was claiming to "forget" her prescriptions at home, and could he write her new ones for her "back pain"? Vicodin, Hydrocodone ...

This is the crazy making that this site helps me get through. Do I believe my poor suffering mother, have I completely made all of this up, or do I believe my own lying eyes?

Anna, thanks for the sanity I find here when I need it.

This

Naive No Longer said...

Wow, Anna. You are right that once you are practiced in detecting the "diversion and deflection" game, it becomes sooo obvious that you wonder how others are missing it.

The political realm is a very interesting one to watch when it comes to identifying this game. I live about an hour outside of Detroit and the illustrious mayor of Detroit has now made national headlines. My mouth hangs open at the audaciousness of his attitude and comments and the number of his "supporters" who buy his bull. Tomorrow is D-day for him, however as the county prosecuter is likely to bring charges against him. Even in the face of EVIDENCE that he made a secret deal costing the city of Detroit 9 million dollars and EVIDENCE via released text messages between him and his chief of staff that they were having an affair to which they lied under oath about - HE STILL stands in front of the camera and says that God put him in the position he is in, that he dreamt about it from the age of 9 years old, and that he will in no way step down from the position and let the people of Detroit down when there is still so much more work to do. He then does such a "convincing spin job" that the evidence doesn't really show what it shows. Even in the face of clear evidence, he is stating that there never was a secret deal and that when all the rest of the text messages are released it will prove he has nothing to hide and he will be vindicated. We have had to listen to this bull week after week.

The city council has now voted 7-1 that he step down from office (a clear vote of no-confidence). However it is not enforceable. So he continues to point the finger at them claiming that they are on a witch hunt and that he will NOT step down from office.

WHAT???? It makes you wonder what planet he is living on.

Even though I am able to see the diversion and evasion tactics so clearly am I still flabbergasted every time.

How they are able to reconcile in their own minds what they are actually saying is beyond me. They are so skilled and practiced in their deceptive techniques, it makes me wonder if they have truly deluded themselves to believe their own lies or if somewhere deep down they know they are lying and laughing at all those whom they are able to pull the wool over.

Anonymous said...

Maria - Please please for your own sake go no contact with your abusive mother. You can't win this one unless you do. Best wishes and good luck!

Anonymous said...

They are absolutely manipulative and opportunistic! They are able to coat their manipulation as "concern" to give themselves permission to instigate and interfere. Have experienced it first hand. They really covet what is not theirs, and have no qualms about lying, conning, manipulating to get their own way, all in the name of "concern". Really scary watching how they operate and totally flabbergasted at their audacity and total lack of human decency and boundaries! There is no reasoning with them. It is a total waste of time. They just don't get it. They cannot solve problems. Just make bigger and worse ones. They divert and exhaust your energies. They are so good at evading ... horrors! Stay away from them. Period. No contact. Best solution. If you must engage them, the legal system is the best. Never show you are afraid of them. Am I making any sense?

Anonymous said...

Definitely never show you are afraid of them. Never be vulnerable to them at all --nor let them anywhere close to your true thoughts or feelings. Maybe that's not the right way to deal with them, but that's my way. This blog has been so beneficial --- a shield against gaslighting and false guilt/shame -- offering clear-eyed, sane perspectives. I especially relate to krl's experience of trying to address issues by laying them on the table for discussion. Whooo boy! You will feel like pond scum in short order.

krl said...

I don't usually write specifics about my experiences with my Ns.....but this one keeps rattling around in my head after reading this post. When I would finally get the nerve up to tell him what or how he had hurt me...or address something of his cruelty in any particular incident...he would glare at me and say, "WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO LEARN TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR OWN PAIN?!" The last time he used that on me, I said "Okaaayyyy. I AM. I WILL. I AM DIVORCING YOU." And I DID.

krl

Anonymous said...

Since you have slipped the snare and flown away, I trust it won't be callous to remark that "WHEN WILL YOU LEARN TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR OWN PAIN" made me laugh till I cried.

I, myself, divorced my parents 26 days ago.

rin said...

Interesting comments about Obama. For a few years now I also have been fascinated by his ability to evade answering questions pertaining to his character.

He's so adept that most of his followers really do project their own visions of the ideal candidate onto his blank canvas.

B.E.C.K. said...

krl, my ex/N (who is a textbook case, and a psychologist to boot) said the very same thing to me. Finally I moved out. We are still in contact somewhat because we have a child together, but I've learned how to disengage quite a bit -- not replying to his crazy emails, etc. But wow -- it's interesting to hear the exact words my ex used...being said by someone else. He also uses the diversion tactic and does not directly answer questions, so I've learned ask them very directly (yes/no answers). It's frustrating at times, but I've felt better as I've learned how not to get sucked into his craziness.

Anonymous said...

It's been my experience that the most prevalent evasive technique used by N's and other character disordered persons is the refusal to answer questions that are posed to them directly, particularly while in the midst of an argument or when tensions have been high between they and another person.

A simple question that warrants a simple yes/no response is either completely ignored or evaded in ways that defy normal human logic. This leaves the rest of us at a loss as to how someone that we thought we knew could be so petty and illogical. It's also funny how they seem to actually believe that their behavior isn't obvious to others. However, I agree that many manipulators are so adept that they are able to fool everyone at first.

I've heard that N's do this because they feel that by even answering simple, harmless questions, they're somehow "giving" in to you, thus losing "control" of the situation. Furthermore, if they answer you, thus giving in, they might accidently give you the impression that they “need you” or “care” about you. I put those things in quotes simply to highlight that those are things that N’s go to herculean lengths to avoid showing. It's beyond comprehension for those of us that don't see everyday interactions as arenas of combat, where one's ego is somehow constantly at stake over minutia. These people, despite appearing normal at first, are truly alien in how they understand things and what they truly value in life. Over time, a person’s honest to God values come out through their actions. That’s simply something that the most closed Narcissist cannot prevent, try as they might. They are always found out, sooner or later.

To think a person would sacrifice friends and relationships that lasted years for the sake of not appearing to have needs or "lose" an argument, is extremely sad and pathetic, more so for those of us that wasted our time with such cretins.

Lastly, I completely agree that there really is no such thing as a defense mechanism regarding N’s. They know exactly what they’re doing when not cooperating with a person. They’re nothing more than spoiled brats fighting desperately to avoid having to be held accountable for their asinine and cruel behavior.

Anonymous said...

....I'm new to the website!!...A sincere thanks for a ton of wisdom into a very painful subject.

Deep Six!

Anonymous said...

Hi...

New to the website. Heavy, heavy stuff...but, all worthwhile!!

krl said...

To the two 'anonymous' new people:

So glad you have joined us. Keep reading up on this stuff....stick with this blogsite too. It IS a brave and courageous step in the right direction. At first, (for me) it was overwhelming and frightening to come to grips with what had been done to me(or I had allowed). And then, I could hardly believe these people really existed! Oh...and my rage became outrage. Now, I accept this as a reality....and find whatever support I can in order to heal and recover. It's a process. Stick with it. You are worth it.

NoTherapy said...

I am now more than a year in NC mode with NM and the evolution I have experienced is huge. I can see clearly now. Somebody who can not answer a straight question that matters, is imo a liar. I am not talking about a questions like: what do you want to eat tonight and so on.

When I was still under the influence of my NM and my crazy upbringing I would give just about everybody the benefit of the doubt, but not me of course. O no, I had to be totally honest and this and that, but others were ok to mess up again and again.

Just take a step back and observe somebody who seems unable to answer important straight questions. I want to bet that this person contradicts him/herself all the time about all kinds of things. That he/she "forgets" but miraculously seems to remember when it suits him/her. That he/she tells you that what you are saying is nonsense only to repeat YOUR exact words to somebody else or even crazier to YOU. That they will first tell you to go say to the left and then condemn you for not going to the right (also known as double binding). I find that these people will compliment you on nothing but when you have done a good job they again miraculously do not seem to notice.

Take a step back, observe and then get writ of that person. You can not win from a liar.

It also really does not matter whether such a person is N or not. Deceitful behavior? Get out!

jacqueline said...

Hey everybody!! So true, all your comments. Narcissists SUCK!!!!
Unfortunately, I can't go no-contact w/ the STBN-ex, cuz we share a child together. Every single contact is an arena for all the BS games that used to work so well for him in the past!! Still very frustrating.. Learning to not respond or react until I process the "crap" thrown my way. A usual "I'll get back to you " seems to work the best for me. Any other ideas for dealing w/ the N-ex w/ child?? Thanks

Anonymous said...

Anna, Curious about whether others have noticed these tactics of evading/diverting: N spouse would always have to walk out of the room when it was my turn to talk --> how come 5,000 times in a row he "had to go to the bathroom" or "get a drink" after he said what he wanted?? Also, he now glues a cellphone to his ear whenever he talks to me, as if someone is on the line... you know, I've come to believe no one is! How creepy! Or, for last year or two, he always would say "move your cellphone, your breathing is too loud" when no one else ever said that?! This absolutely drove me crazy! Now, I just wonder why I reacted that same way over and over - makes me feel foolish. I guess I was well trained, even though it made me angry each and every time. What I didn't understand till now is that the anger was a football field large red flag. "jewel"

Anonymous said...

wow...it's so nyce to see folks attacking others, because of personality disorders. instead of trying to help any of your ituations, you ran away. if only you had been as strong/concerned as your N. instead you have all dismissed the N's point of view, for your own misguided one.

Anna Valerious said...

Looks like we've got a live one here, folks. Enjoy.

krl said...

Anna....you crack me up!! I have to go to work right now....but I can't quit laughing about 'a live one here' comment. Thanks.

Anonymous said...

Nah Anna, this just strikes me as someone purposely trying to stir everyone up just for the sake of being contrary. It's doesn't appear to have been posted in order to be taken seriously.

"...if only you had been as strong/concerned as your N. instead you have all dismissed the N's point of view, for your own misguided one."

I'm much too tired too even attempt to unravel such drivel. Again, it just strikes me as someone that stumbled on to here and, for some reason, gets there jollies on trying to post things that are the antithesis of what your site is for.

Katherine Gunn said...

to anonymous (11:13 AM):
First, I have never "attacked" my abuser except in their own mind. I have only asked them to not do things that were hurting me.
Second, Narcissism is a CHOICE not an affliction or disease. Those who choose to be narcissists are not going to change just because you stay and "try to work things out." This only fuels the abuse. Truly, the ONLY hope for them to change is for everyone to walk away from them so that they might face what they are. If they are not willing to face that (most are not or they would not be were they are) Neither I nor anyone else has an obligation to allow them to continue to abuse us.

So, what IS in a heart? said...

"instead of trying to help any of your situations, you ran away. if only you had been as strong/concerned as your N. instead you have all dismissed the N's point of view, for your own misguided one."

There is NO helping someone with Personality Disorders, ESPECIALLY someone who has NPD. "Running Away" is all you can do when dealing with someone intent on controlling your life/abusive.

People with PDs have to admit that they have a problem, seek YEARS of hard work/therapy to unravel their twisted thinking, and be willing to help themselves (outside of relationships). People with NPD are simply incapable of doing that. So, all you can do is stay away or have minimal, detached contact.

Anna Valerious said...

Nah Anna, this just strikes me as someone purposely trying to stir everyone up just for the sake of being contrary. It's doesn't appear to have been posted in order to be taken seriously.

Believe me, I don't take the commenter "anonymous @ 3.28.08 11:13" seriously in any way. There are most definitely people out there who go around trying to defend those with PDs on message boards and the like...usually they own a few of those themselves. So whether this is a person who looks for places to defend the indefensible...or whether it is a person 'trolling' for reactions...they strike me as just silly. Doesn't get my ire up one bit. Hopefully, no one else will get too worked up over this comment either.

Anonymous said...

Yeah, it was poorly written and totally illogical, so who cares what that poster had to say? I'm always open to hearing other's viewpoints, but only when they take the time to actually think, not just spout off.

Anonymous said...

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/03/24/have-you-been-bullied-at-work/?scp=1-b&sq=bullying+workplace&st=nyt

In case people are interested, this is an article and video on bullying in the workplace and includes a list of the subtle and not so subtle behaviors that are employed by "workplace bullies". Of course, substitute N for bully, because that is what they are talking about. They have run a series of articles now [in the last week] on "adult bullying" because the reader response was so unusually huge.

Naive No Longer said...

Anonymous @ 11:13 said:

"instead you have all dismissed the N's point of view, for your own misguided one."

I thank God EVERY day that I have now become "misguided"!!!!

Anon @ 11:13 needs to learn how to use spell-check.

Naive No Longer said...

I must share a few comments that I thought were priceless in the editorial sections of the two major Detroit newspapers calling for the narcissistic corrupt mayor to resign.

These qotes are so appropo to our situations with the narcissist that I wanted others to see them:

The quote at the beginning of one of the editorials:

"YOUR ACTIONS SPEAK SO LOUD, I CANNOT HEAR WHAT YOU SAY" ... Ralph Waldo Emerson.

And secondly, the mayor had been exposed for some of his shady stuff prior to his reelection in 2005. During his campaign for reelection in 2005 he seemed repentant and stated: "I've learned a valuable lesson. Borrowing a quote from President Abraham Lincoln, 'I do not think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday'". He then goes on to state that he believes he is wiser than he was yesterday. (And the people voted him back into office. Only to discover that they had been duped again by this charming, charismatic mayor who has NPD).

The astute editorial columnist was quick to point out that Abraham Lincoln also stated: "STAND WITH ANYBODY WHO STANDS RIGHT. STAND WITH HIM WHILE HE IS RIGHT AND PART WITH HIM WHEN HE GOES WRONG."

fatma said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anna Valerious said...

Fatma,

If the relationship isn't working for you then you are more than justified in ending it. You're not obligated to stay in a 'friendship' that is one-way and where differences are consistently resolved by making you the bad guy. You don't have to label your friend to have solid reasons to end the contact. If the relationship is making your life harder and sucking the happiness out it then it is past time to end it and move on.

Venus said...

Hiya all i was lead to read this topic since a 3 yr relo had ended like a month back. After discovering my partner at the time was close to cheating on me 3 times, i was lied to, trick, twisted to blame in anger cause i was insecure and invaded his privacy checking his phone and internet history handful of times. To discover the conncern with them looking for sex else were. Yet as all relo's go there are many pieces of puzzle and this one ended for my ex finally after a week of discovering and me trying to come to terms them almost cheating. It was really heart breaking cause i still do love them but they really dont love me know believe who i am anymore.

I was left being told the past i never get better i didnt deal with there issues (which was constant). I felt the same cause whenever i brought something up it was diverted how they felt the same a week ago or i did the same once before? Leaving us both upset cause we both wanting to be heard. I tried the whole shut up and be there and it worked for awhile yet so unhappy and depleted. Cause he looked so happy and if i mention tuff day with something well i was shut down alot.

So anyway it ended in a e-mail by them saying tis over im emotionally abusive, narassictic, having secrets, and esiacally emotionally manlipulating.

I was firstly devestated quit my job and sobed for days trying to come to terms his ended it wont talk to me unless i e-mail. Made a fool trying to go over call txt yet in the end made it worse and waiting a week to discover them meeting new guys and they want ti over happy without me. And deep down think im a terriable person who made them loose there job, friends, work, made em drink like a fish.

Well lets say i really felt messed with even to the point where i meet new people so lovely nice and i just still processing the hurt of being left on such bad terms. Even when i ask for feedback they say its so wrong what happen. I just keep trying to see how i allow myself into this situation and could subconsiously am i like these articles are saying? Really question myself cause i never thought a lover could be so cruel for no logical reason. I dont want to be one of those people who just think nah there crazy im fine. i wanna learn and grow.

And one other thing that concerns me. If any person read this article how can you really tell if this is true. With manlpulators nassism tactics. like diverting not dealing with a issue at all of course would eb distrubing for anyone. Yet how many people read the article upset with a relo and assume its the same thing? Not just a heated agument where rationality is question cause not stoping tkaing a breathe and thinking before talking.

I come from a counselling background. Yet put it aside during this relo and my fathers death. and all i learnt no alot of what i learnt and used to try to help the relo be happy for both. Just ended up as a big failure and beatiful love crushed cause of a believe of im narassistic and manlipulator.. oh and abusive well if so i am studying and i will get better yet if i was ultimatly just projected there own issues at least i wouldnt question myself again like this person has ignighted in me. Really thought this one was the one. but now it all seen as a evil ploy on a weak helpess victim. never would of dream i could trigger such negative thoughts in another or even possible behave to create :( at least i strive for love and truth and welcome all comments

all here but not all there said...

I have recently realized my mother for what she is, an evil N.

When she trolled through my belongs (when I was 17) to find my diary which had information about my sexual abuse by my schizophrenic father - Instead of showing compassion. Instead of comforting me. Instead of NOT reading my diary. She read it, left it on the bookshelf where I would see it as I walked in the door from school (it sent my heart into my throat) and then she said as I looked at her with jaw dropped "Is this true?" Like I would lie, in my own diary no less! No condolences, no "I'm so sorry" nada. She just mentions that "Oh yeah, he did that to your brother too but promised he never would again." And then went on to mention something about how she never though that would happen to someone in HER family. Feigned shock is what that was. She knew god damn well it was going to happen again. She left me ALONE with that monster after my brother had been abused and removed from her custody! She knew!

Thank you Anna. Now, finally, at age 35 I can see the bitch for what she is. EVIL. To the core.

Erin Allen said...

O.......M.......G! I know you posted the comment over four years ago, but I am laughing so hard right now. I could easily pass out if I laughed any harder because you just outed an N to a bunch of people online with zero effort. KUDOS! That was so awesome. air high five!

Erin Allen said...

Question: Not sure how many people can relate to my situation, but what about people who have children by a narcissist? I do and it is not pretty. I left my 9 year old sons N father before he was born because of his behavior. At the time, I did not have a clue what an N even was, but the behavior in itself was enough reason for me to leave him. Something just didn't seem right and I wasn't about to stick around too find out. I even moved to a new apartment in another state. Anyway, I guess a better question would be: How come some N parents brag about how much money they have, flash that money all around town, yet they don't have any interest in taking care of their kids whatsoever? I mean, I never denied him access to his son AFTER he was born, I just left him for my own sanity. It took him six months to get off of his lazy ass and call me to see his son. He predictably blamed everything on me. Claiming I never gave him a chance to see his own child. Liar. Please note: my son has only seen him three times in ten years by his own choice. He knew where we were, had my phone number, but he chose not to even attempt to contact his son. Any who, the third time he saw his son was the last straw....this happened about three months ago. I quickly saw through his manipulation. I also called him on his bullshit and he went ballistic because I flat out called him a narcissist to his face and apparently people like N aren't too fond of being confronted with the truth. Who would have guessed! Lol. I am currently enforcing the no contact rule. I was tired of his constant self absorbed attitude. However, he still will not go away! Every so often he tries texting me about how i'm missing out on what a great catch he is and will send me pictures of fanned out cash. Uh okay, um, if he has so much money to flash around, then he would have no problem
actually taking care of his child, right? WRONG! He doesn't have money and I wouldn't want it even if it did exist. Then he continues to text me even though I never reply saying the most outrageous stuff to me. He would say "I have this and that. I have connections if I ever need money. If I wanted or needed five thousands dollars I would make it happen, no sweat. I'm just good like that." THEN the one time I asked him to do something for his son, he complained about how he was broke all if a sudden. What happened to his so called connections? What a joke. He is a compulsive liar, a con artist, master manipulator, thinks he is above everyone. Especially the law. In his mind, rules do not apply to him. I know it kind of sounds like i'm after his non existent money, but i'm not. I'm just saying he texts me random crap out of nowhere as if I really give a flying fuck about the things he has, correction, DOESN'T HAVE. He just isn't getting the point! Retard, I swear. He honestly believes he can talk his way in and out of every situation. Well sorry to burst his bubble, but i'm one of those women who doesn't let anyone boss me around just because they say so. I don't owe him anything. He is all talk. I think. So, in conclusion, he is a full blown N and I just want him to go away! The texting is so annoying too!