Friday, September 25, 2009

If your mother was a narcissist then you'll understand this...

An interesting article appeared on the UK Daily Mail a few days ago. Erin Pizzey is stating a solemn truth that must be seriously considered by the world: that women are every bit as capable of cruelty and abuse as men are and that it is time to stop pretending that men have the corner on being abusers. She describes her childhood growing up with two abusive parents and describes her mother's abuse as being much worse:

...it was my mother's more emotional, verbal form of abuse that scarred me most deeply. She indulged in a particular kind of soul murder...

Those of us raised by a malignant narcissist mother certainly can understand what Erin is describing.

I won't be entertaining heated defenses of feminism in the comments section. Keep the comments confined to the point of this article...that women are just as capable of being abusers as men are. And women may very well be more damaging in their form of abuse because they understand the nuances of emotional and verbal slaughter and have more access to their children to carry out their abuses.

Read it and weep:

Why I loathe feminism... and believe it will ultimately destroy the family

47 comments:

lorem ipsum said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

I agree that women can be at least equal if not more damaging because:

- their abuse can often go under the radar longer and more completely then the average 'style' of an abusive male, which generally tends to be more open.

- more people are suspicious of males then females, and more likely to believe more "obvious" signs of abuse. People with extremely cunningly verbally abusive mothers can feel completely disbelieved, or not see what is happening to them on your average "signs of abuse" list, and so they think their abuse is not real or not as bad. When in reality it is just as bad but more INVISIBLE, like carbon monoxide poisoning.

- even when they are not openly physically abusive themselves - like many more men are known to be, they can allow or set up situations where their children are physically harmed and endangered by other people. Or they withhold medical care and allow or cause other hardships, which is nothing more then covert but genuine physical abuse. This type of physical abuse is actually much harder to pin down or complain about then being hit is.

- they cunningly enlist and entwine and enmesh their victims as protectors and confidantes, something a male would generally have a harder time doing

- when they abuse teen or adult males, there is a huge stigma against the male for coming forward or complaining or getting help

- they can play the 'helpless female card' and the "mother card": both powerful and effective

I say all this, having directly experienced a very emotionally cunning male N myself, so I know that some men are also capable of great subtlety in their abuses. I have also met a really bluntly uncunning female N once [very unsuccessful in scoring NS, pathetic really]. But still, N women by far seem to more often be capable of vast subtleties, and to boot they have an ongoing gender pass from society that men simply don't get ever. Add the "motherhood pass", and the combo is truly horrible for a defenseless child.


Oh - and welcome back Anna!! Hope things have been well!

GraFXgrl98 said...

can I get an amen?

glad to see you post again anna :)

Soaring Dove said...

I have just recently went NC with the egg donor. NM is just too good of a name for her! I sometimes refer to her as the evil N, because I can bring myself to use the M due to the fact she NEVER was one. In some ways she is worse then the monster that hurt me when I was young because she is suppose to protect me and not compare her ex-friend kicking her out to a monster hurting her daughters. She actually thinks it is the same thing and told one of my Sisters that recently. Her invalidation of my child abuse is worse than all her verbal abuse and physical abuse. To realize that she is truly evil was hard to accept, but sometimes the truth hurts and healing can be painful too, but necessary. I believe that overall we were created equal, thus abusive women are just as evil as abusive men. The only difference when that evil person is your own Mother it just takes it to a whole new level of hell.
May I add your blog to my blog? I just started blogging and I think your blog would be beneficial to others. Here is mine if you want to take a look. It is about my journey to freedom from an evil parent.
http://dealingwithtoxicpeople.blogspot.com/

skylar said...

I never knew that feminism was about male bashing. I thought it was about liberating us from our own self-imposed limitations about what we can do. I guess I never really learned much about it.

Since learning about narcissism, I've discovered that there is no such thing as racism or misogyny, it's ALL narcissism. Those labels are used by narcissists to scapegoat one group or another and try to justify their hatred. The truth is that they hate ALL HUMANITY. If they were to finally eradicate any one group that they rail against, they would just move on to the next one. By scapegoating any one group they also accomplish that well known trick of narcissists: persecution by proxy. They can rally simple minded people into hating any one group so that they don't have to hate alone.

Anonymous said...

I definitely had a narcissist mother. When I was in college I hated my stepfather, who was more overtly abusive verbally. My mother, however, did nothing.

When I left the state and got my masters degree, that's when the real venom came out of my mother. She got nastier and nastier, sabotaging my graduate recital and always digusted with me whenver I came home to visit. So I stopped visiting.

I really feel that now she is the dominant N and that my stepdad is the subserviant one. She complains about him to me all the time. I never thought I would actually feel a little sorry for him.

What is interesting is that I can see my mom getting worse with age. As I've read in other N blogs, she'll probably end up with dementia and/or Alzeheimer's.

It's funny...my grandmother, who verbally and probably physically abused my mom as a youngster is totally in another world now, totally demented and irrational.

Barbara said...

while I am a bit of a feminist myself I am going to paraphrase something Kathy Krajco always said -

examine feminism WITH YOUR BRAIN ON

Just because she's a feminist doesn't mean she's not also a destructive narcissist.

Hugs!

So, what IS in a heart? said...

"examine feminism WITH YOUR BRAIN ON"

Well, that should apply with everything. Heh.

Anna Valerious said...

For those whose comments didn't get approved:

My posting a link to an article isn't a sign that I'm "back". I've not got the time to deal with things I don't want to deal with.

Here are the facts: I do not have to defend Erin Pizzey's position or statements. I don't have to defend an article simply because I put a link to this article on my blog. Why don't I? Because it isn't a difficult article to understand. I don't have to host comments which I don't want to host and, no, it doesn't somehow reduce my credibility simply because your comment wasn't approved. I have some ability to perceive what certain types of comments will be likely to generate more heat than light. I am following my hunch when I don't approve a comment. Deal with it.

It should be obvious from the comments that did get approved that it is possible to understand Mrs. Pizzey's angle. If you don't get it, I'm sorry. It isn't my job to explain the obvious.

Anna Valerious said...

Note to Skylar: No, my last comment wasn't in response to you.

Anna Valerious said...

Grizelda,

I cannot edit comments in any way therefore I cannot change your name. If you want to resubmit your comment without your real name I would be happy to publish it.

God bless.

Kelly said...

Wow, that was a hard article to read. But she's right. Most people just don't believe that women are capable of abuse, sometimes abuse that is so much more dangerous.

elizabeth said...

i think you are out of your MIND. the MAJORITY of MEN are NARCICISSTS, your mom is an EXCEPTION. 85% of ALL HOMICIDES are committed by men, 90% of all sexual violence, and men continue earn more money than women do and exploit masculine privilege to remain in power. i'm sorry, HOW MANY FEMALE PRESIDENTS HAS THE US HAD AGAIN? i know SOME WOMEN can be "evil" and "selfish" like your mom BUT IS MUCH MORE COMMON IN MEN! SORRY! the nature of a woman is to nurture and self-sacrifice, i'm sorry your mother had a screw loose.

Anna Valerious said...

Wow, honey. I think it's time to get your medication adjusted.

Skylar said...

Elizabeth, it's impossible to gauge the percentages for so many reasons. But until you've been involved with the subtle and almost undetectable narcissism of a woman, you will never know about it. The subtle attacks are delivered with an expression of love or concern.
An example: A woman's children come home with report cards. She knows her children are very good students but she knows that there are other good students in each of their classes. Instead of focusing on the acheivements of her children, the first questions out of her mouth are to ask about those other good students. Who did better than you? How much better? Then she will follow up by comparing her children to each other, trying to seed envy, competition and rivalry among her children. All of this is done casually, you'd barely register it. Until you know better.

The difference is, when a man beats you, you know where the pain is, who gave it to, why you have it. When a woman slyly devalues you at a vulnerable age and negates your self-worth, you never even know you were hit. You're crippled and you don't even know it.

That's why people view men as being more narcissistic. They come at you with a frontal assault. Women are covert and often deliver the psychic blows under cover of nurturing. It's frightening because there are no statistics. People don't go to the emergency room with a psychic trauma - which they never even knew they had.

All this has nothing to do with feminism. it just has to do with how critical it is to recognize narcissism wherever you see it.

Anna Valerious said...

Elizabeth's comment is the quintessential example to illustrate what the author of the article I linked to is identifying as the problem. The finger of blame being laid at the feet of men for societal ills and problems with women always being the victim and never (or very, very rarely) the perp. Feminism is the cause of this divide and it isn't helping people identify the real problem. I hope that you can all clearly see through this glittering example what Erin Pizzey was saying. Because Erin Pizzey cares about children and families she has come to despise feminism because feminism has shifted the locus of blame in a way that hurts them. Men are not the problem. Human evil is the problem and human evil can be found in men, women and children. And the anecdotal evidence is showing, time and time again, that human evil shows up in both sexes in about the same percentages. How that evil manifests can vary according to sex, but its baleful effects are usually felt most by the children. She based her opinion on her own childhood, but she made clear that her years of running women's shelters opened her eyes to the fact that women are abusive in about the same numbers as men are. This is essential for people to understand if children are going to be better protected from abuse. Because of society's belief that women are somehow better than men, i.e. more caring, nurturing and compassionate, that it must mean that the woman isn't the problem when there is a problem in the home. This thinking is an archaic vestige of feminism and must be reformed if children are to be protected.

The thousands of comments over the whole of this blog testify to the reality that women manifest in huge frequency as malignant narcissists. It is real. It is undeniable except to the ignorant. Human evil is the problem and feminism pretends far too often that human evil only manifests in men. This failing of feminism was what was being addressed by this article.

The "B" said...

wow. Elizabeth's comment is the kind if thing that embarasses me as a woman. All my years of learning and wanting wisdom, all my hard work and reputation to be a wise, good person. Some idiot comes along with a childish, foolish, selfish comment and makes all women look stupid again in the eyes of others. Grow up.

Billie said...

What does the number of female presidents the US has ever had have to do with the number of female narcissists in the world??? Um, yeah, I know just as many evil women as I do men, and both sexes are equally represented in my world.

sheofmermaids said...

Your blog discussing the topic of "Malignant Narcissism" is very insightful. I have a question. In your commentary on the characteristic behaviors of an "MN", you made mention that these people "freely choose" their narcissistic conduct. . & yet, I also read in your writing on this subject that the "MN" is seemingly unable to help himself/herself when it comes to the way they carry on in life, no matter how damaging their behaviors are. This strikes me as a conflict on the topic of narcissism. Could you explain how the "MN" can make a deliberate choice to behave this way even though they (for some strange reason) cannot help who & how they are? Thank you for this blog & the help it offers.

Anna Valerious said...

It would be helpful if you provided actual quotes or source the posts you think are conflicting so I can see context for the statements. Here's my consistent message: narcissists create themselves. Choice by choice they make themselves just as we all do. They make conscious choices to hurt others. It is also true that what we do over a life time becomes habitual. And we all know that habits can become very ingrained and difficult to break (if one is inclined to try). They can also become almost invisible to us. Especially patterns of behavior and thinking. Over time we become what we do and think and it can become next to impossible to change those patterns.

Skylar said...

I believe you are right Anna. Our behavior affects our thinking just as our thinking affects our behavior. The sociopath I was with, lied constantly, non-stop, to everyone. I think that each time he lied it increased his delusions of paranoia. Now he thinks he must "disappear" where no one will find him. That's what he says anyway, he could be lying. :)

outtopasture said...

I am sad to say that I completely get that article. It is very disturbing but somehow reassuring to me because my mother was every bit as abusive and cruel, played mind games, and tried to play us children in manipulating our father. I never thought in a million years that I would find another person on earth who would understand this type of damage. It is a releif to find this site but also sad that so many childhoods had to be ruined...and for many of us carried on into adulthood.

ANDREA said...

Just a thought about men having/not having the corner on abuse and narcissism: Mothers have a significant affect on their childrens' social and emotional development. More than one serial killer has been identified as having been severly abused by a (seemingly) MN.

chris said...

I have only recently become acquainted with the definition of malignant narcissism and I believe that both my mother and my current girlfriend are malignant narcissists. From my perspective I would prefer physical abuse to the constant barrage of psychic abuse I have suffered at their hands. My self-worth was totally annihilated as a child when I began to understand that NOTHING I did or did not do could really affect how my mother felt about me. Nothing was ever good enough and one by one as my brothers and I became teenagers with wills of our own it was readily apparent that we were no longer useful to my mother because we were no longer convenient sources of NS.

Now I am struggling with a live-in MN and wondering what I can do. Just this past weekend I had to suffer through another narcissistic rage episode brought on by a perceived slight when someone dared to question her ability to drive after consuming several drinks. She then proceeded to drive innocent bystanders home at 90+ mph and rationalized this behavior because "they upset me by accusing me of being drunk". When I tried to point out that that is not acceptable behavior no matter what someone says she threatened to kill herself and told me that it was all my fault and I would have to live with her death. Much to her chagrin I have learned a lot about MN by reading and studying her behavior and I knew she would not really do it. I wouldn't let her guilt me like I normally do and stood my ground. I'm just not sure I can take it anymore. She had another rage two or three weeks ago which ended with her being arrested but I convinced them to drop the charges. I'm still lost and confused but the one thing I do know is that female narcissists can be just as evil as male narcissists. I feel like a broken person that cannot be fixed because of my mother and I ended up right back in the hands of another MN.

Anna Valerious said...

Chris,

Good for you. You've learned what these m-fr's are about and you were able to use that knowledge to avoid being manipulated by your live-in MN. Can you leave her? What is stopping you? Are there kids involved? There is healing from being abused by MNs but it must happen away from them. You can't heal when you have one constantly inflicting their evilness on you.

ANDREA said...

Chris- Do I ever understand your statement about physical abuse being better to identify and deal with than emotional abuse. When my N ex-husband put his hands on me, it was almost a relief. I immediately filed for divorce, but made a quick and very helpful trip to a women's shelter.

However, when I left him, my MN disowned me and became the great defender of my ex, the victim. She followed the typical MN behavior of sympathizing with other N's in the abusive behavior aimed at the scapegoat, me.

It's been a horribly lonely road, complicated by the terminal cancer of my dad, which has brought my mother back into my life. I'm sure I will have to endure my mother's gracious inclusion of my ex-husband at his funeral.

Keep reading! I have found so much in this blog that has helped me to shore up my resolve. It's easy to feel and behave as if you don't have any power. But you DO. It lies in your willingness to walk away, even if others think you are wrong.

Thank you, Anna.

The "B" said...

Chris,
I'm sorry for what you have, and are now going through. My best advice is read every inch of this blog - twice, three times! Knowlege is power. One of the major problems with growing up with this type of abuse is that you don't really know what your rights as a human being are, that being treated certin ways is unacceptable. That's something you will have to learn again and this blog is a great place to start. I know it was a God-send to me.

Kathleen said...

It's amazing, the insight and clarity that can be achieved with no contact! It's now 2 years since I went N/C with my ILs, and the view has changed. Now I can see how my FIL has manipulated so many people to do his dirty work, to make sure others get hurt and then he can say "what did I do?" Now I can vividly see how selfish these people are -- and also, sadly, how dysfunctional they are as they cling to their belief that DAD and MOM are Mr. and Mrs. God.
And it has taken 2 years of N/C. And I wasn't even raised by them! So I'm SURE it must be so much more difficult when you are raised by an N or Ns. But please, if you really haven't gone N/C, if you're doubting yourself, if you feel like giving in -- GIVE IT TIME! You WILL feel better!
Thanks, Anna.

- Kathleen

Soaring Dove said...

Hi Chris,
Sorry to hear you grew up with a MN for an egg donor too. Although you can not change the fact that your egg donor was a MN you do have the power to not have to live with an MN--no matter if there are kids involved or not. My cousin was married to a MN who accused him of the worse thing you could accuse a father just to get sole custody and her evil way (never thought a woman would ever lie about such a horrible thing-but there are those that will stop at NOTHING to get their evil way). Thank God the truth came out! Unfortunately the children still have to be raised by her due to the shared custody. At least half of the time they have a normal loving parent which shows them that life can be different and the problem is not with them, but their MN egg donor. Both you and your kids (if there are any) deserve to be in a loving & safe environment and that is not possible as you know with MNs and by reading this blog and doing your research. Get your freedom and have a new life in the new year! After going NC this year w/my MN egg donor I have discovered my self-worth and purpose in life, which is simple, to love and be loved. MNs do not have to be a part of our present or our future. Let's leave them in the past where they belong!
Wishing you and everyone else here blessed holidays & awesome new beginnings in the new year!

Kathleen said...

"Christian issues" and a little humor.
http://tinyurl.com/y9ncs72

- Kathleen

Sarah said...

I can't even explain how much this is helping me. Thank you. I can now say ___ is crazy not in anger, but as a factual statement. A lifetime of therapy never did what this site is doing for me. I know the more I read, the more I will get out of this amazing site.

Orions_onion said...

I would like to thank you for this wonderful blog.

I stumbled upon it by accident, because I was looking up information on NPD. I fully believe that my mother and my cousin both have this disorder.

For years I fully believed that I was the wrongdoer in both of these relationships. I was constantly made to grovel and ask for forgiveness. The place I am now is pleasant. I don't have any contact with either one of them, although lately I have been sad because of this. They have essentially cut me off from the entire family. My youngest son doesn't have any grandparents (my husband's parents have passed away) now that my mother doesn't have anything to do with us. Of course, this is MY fault in her eyes. She completely blames all of this on me and says that I have my child on a pedestal and that I need to be knocked from my high horse.

The basis of the argument is this: I wanted to know who my father was (is). She refuses to acknowledge that I even have one. She won't tell, it will embarrass her. I found out through family members that it may be the husband of best friend from that time in her life. This is the kicker though. She won't tell my brother who his father is either. It is maddening, it is this perpetual cycle of madness that I have lived for almost 40 years with. My son, who is 10, is scared to death of her. I have explained to him that she is sick and that it isn't his fault. By the way, when this argument started he was 7. She is putting the blame on a 7 year old. How sick is that?

The other narcissist in my life is my cousin. I also was constantly pelted with her whining and arguing for years. I have dropped her like a hot potato. I finally decided that I do not need either of them in my life, but knocking them out also knocks me from the rest of the family. I can't speak to my brother if my mom is around, he had to hide and call me to tell me Merry Christmas. I can't speak with my aunt if my cousin is around, because of course I am the bad guy.

Sometimes I feel bad for my son, who has no idea who his family is, but then I think, "Do I really want him to know them? Would it be healthy?"

I would also like to say this (I haven't read all of your articles, so I am sorry if this point has already been made by you) I have noticed that people with this disorder cannot take care of animals. They have no idea how to put the needs of the puppy or kitten above their own. My mother, nor my cousin could not do it. Interestingly, my mother has acquired a cat recently (my aunt told me) but it is a full grown self-sufficient cat, that probably stays away from her.

My cousin was also not able to raise her two daughters on her own. If you asked her she would admit to raising them, but my aunt was the one that got them to preschool age, and my cousin fully believes that she (herself) raised them both.

I just wanted to say thank you for this blog, and I will enjoy reading your articles in the days to come.

she with green feet said...

Though I am a bit late to comment on this one, I would just like to say that there are feminists out there (I can name half a dozen off the top of my head, including myself) who know that woman-on-woman emotional violence is wretchedly pervasive, and part of our feminism is actively addressing the fact that anyone can be abusive, and that abuse is not gender specific, only sometimes the means with which it is carried out. We would prefer the label "humanist" be flung at us, however the way life works, if we advocate for an understanding how people are already equal--for better or worse--the "f" word is thrown at us instead. This is an amazing blog, and I am grateful to have found it. Thank you, Anna! Having suffered a number of N female family members, it is affirming to read everything you have to say.

ANDREA said...

Orions onion, you mentioned the inability of a narcissist to take care of an animal (let alone children). I have an interesting, yet opposite observation that may emphasize the verity of both. My N mom has had a series of cats upon which she dotes. However, their total dependency is what gives her pleasure. Despite the eye rolling and complaining about how much effort it takes. She also doted on my babies (unless they cried too much) until they developed their own personalities and began to say "no". Such behavior was an affront.

Just a thought...thanks for sharing, everybody!

Aloha, said...

Anna,

I am new to your blog, I have been dealing with an NM for years, she may be BP as well. I have been back and forth with NC for about 5 years and I always get sucked back in with family pressure and suffer greatly when I fall for it.

I read one of the blog posts here last night wherein the person who was having similar problems with an NM and N sister mentioned that the slightest contact has such a profound Toxic effect that she is sent into great pain, merely upon contact.

I have the same thing going on, if I have any contact whatsoever, phone, email, card in the mail.. I am sent into a tailspin with great internal pain ..to the point it becomes difficult to work or focus on anything as my mind becomes cluttered with obsessional thinking about the NM and the pain that ensues...

Please Anna could you elaborate on this phenomena that occurs with ACON's when they get such pain from contact with NM, even with the slightest contact.

Regards,

Don

Anna Valerious said...

Don,

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. You asked me to elaborate on the "phenomena" of obsessional thinking about the N after the slightest contact with them.

First of all, I'm not sure I thought of it as a "phenomena"... so it feels a little difficult to know how to elaborate. If I examine my own experience with what you've described, which is all I really have to go on, then I might be able to come up for some reasons for the obsessional thinking that follows in the wake of the slightest contact with a N.

The narcissist parent comes with a whole s**t load of baggage in our lives. Our earliest memories and experiences are usually about them in some way. So when a narcissist parent intrudes back into our thoughts there are inevitably many associations that come with them. So there is that aspect.

We are also suddenly and once again confronted with their unreasonable demands and expectations. This is the area that usually caused the tailspins for me. Because of the narcissist parent's training of us since we were tiny we feel those expectations and demands as LAW. Which means there is a an emotional price to pay when we don't fulfill those expectations and demands. Usually we pay that in the form of a sense of guilt. We feel the "disappointment" and the sense that we are a failure, too. That bites us right in the ass as well.

When you are breaking free of all the conditioning of the narcissist parent(s)there is a high emotional price that comes with it. It FEELS wrong on all levels. Your rational mind is running completely contrary to the tidal wave of emotions. I suspect somewhere in there is the cause of the obsessional thinking. Rational thought and emotional conditioning are at odds and the mind is having to work overtime to put some order back into your inner life. It can become difficult to know which is right; my thinking or my emotions? Our emotions can have the advantage because they are the results of YEARS of conditioning. You likely have only known for a relatively short span of your life what your mother really is so you are stuck in a seesaw between your new knowledge and your much older and more entrenched framework of thinking.

My continual recommendation of going completely no contact with narcissist family members is essential for avoiding these tail spins into obsessional thinking. Any and all contact is a confrontation. It is the next salvo in the continual war that is every interaction with a narcissist. You know this instinctively which is probably why your thoughts go into overdrive. Cut the narcissist(s) off at every pass. Change your phone number. Change your email. Change your address even! I have advocated more than once on this blog that people MOVE if necessary to get the distance needed to avoid the narcissist. I have returned mail unopened to my narcissist mother. I can't tell you how powerful that was both for me and for her. I was freed from being forced into a confrontation via letter, and she was utterly stripped of all access to me as that was her final channel of communication left with me. I know she must have gnashed her teeth to get that letter back, but I didn't have to hear a thing about it!

Only by prolonged no contact can a person really get their bearings. It is the necessary prescription for getting the perspective you need. It allows you the space and time to fully and rationally work through your narcissist problem. All the narcissist does is throw more sand in your face each time you have to interact with them which makes it hard to see straight for a time. This is why no contact is so essential for full recovery from their effects on our lives.

I hope some of this explains your problem and is helpful to you.

Anna Valerious said...

One more thought, Don. Every contact with a narcissist is not only a confrontation it is a game. There is inevitably a hidden agenda on their part. They rarely have all their cards on the table. You know there is a shiv that they're going to stick between your ribs at some point but you're not sure where it's hidden and when it'll hit. This could also be a possible reason for your obsessional thinking in the wake of contact with the N. Looking for the trap!

D said...

Anna,

Thank you so much for your response..

" You likely have only known for a relatively short span of your life what your mother really is so you are stuck in a seesaw between your new knowledge and your much older and more entrenched framework of thinking"

Yes it's a gradual awakening from the grave it seems.

You are a Godsend and give me strength Anna.

All The Best,

Don

D said...

My Dad joined the Army in 1945, I just found this out on my own the other day. He died when I was 2, he was in the Korean War a Sgt. He survived the war and got stationed in Germany afterwards and I guess sent for my NM, MY older brother GC(committed suicide later in life) and me the scapegoat...

Crazy thing to me is, he went through that war, people all around him got killed, but he survived somehow.

When it's over and he comes to meet his family, and he somehow gets killed. My Mom never gave much detail as kids, said he was in a car accident.

As I grew up and wanted to know more...asking her about it, she let me know they had been at a picnic, some argument..she even indicated he was drinking. And he went driving away (by himself)leaving NM, me and brother...she said she didn't want to get in the car with him drinking. Anyway, he drove away and got killed in a car accident.

My question is why did she let him drive away if you felt it was dangerous?? maybe I'm just being suspect..I just think she has not divulged the entire episode to me as it occurred, only tiny bits and pieces.

She did indicate once when I was trying to pick her brain about it that she had been thrown into such a state is of distress because of it that she was 'couch ridden' and had my older brother care-take her, bringing her wet warm washcloths to lay over her head...that was the beginning of the end for him I believe... as he became the 'Man' of the house and I was the one who all the anger and depression was taken out on....and he was the one who did it as my Mom watched sometimes emotionless and of course joined in when she had to show she was a mother...

D

Fly Away said...

Fast Forward to around 2000 or 2001...

I'm 46 or so at the time, I had been working in independent film since early 80's on the financial side, nothing glamorous but had great fun.

I was in contact with NM at the time, usually she would call on Sunday after she got back from Church..

to tell me just that..

"Oh I just got back from Church" and then on to her usual 'woe is me' bullshit. Back then was when I started putting things together about her, I always known growing up that there was something wrong with her and her family, her Mom was the N from HELL...

Anyway, I am talking to her on that day..(talks always laced with lies, guilt, 'woe is me' etc..

So I inform her I am leaving town for a few weeks to fly out to L.A. to work on a project. Rather than ask me what the project was about or if I was excited ....she says to me., "Well, I need a number" as in telephone number I can give mommy while I am out of town so she can check up on me if she needs to..

I remember kinda being taken back like 'can she really mean this??'

and I called her on it..I called her on a lot of stuff back then..

I said.,"What do you mean, I am a grown man..that is something you say to a kid going off to camp or something"

Well she got nasty and said.."You belong to me!!!"

I swear this is true, I was shocked and pissed at the same time and flatly told her...'No one BELONGS to anybody' and tried to explain and set her straight...and then she got all whimpery and indignant at the same time saying, "Well Alright Then'.... more less indicating that my saying to HER that I did not BELONG to her was saying that I didn't want a relationship, like if I did not go along with her owning me the relationship was not acknowledged.

crazy shit

BADI said...

it is part of the misery of being born to a narcissist that people don't take us seriously, they very quickly jump to the conclusion that we are "bad children" (this idea of guilt is select weapon of the NMonster).

May I ask someone who knows about English to suggest a word that says "birther" (one who gives birth) so that we use it instead of the word "mother" (which implies love and affection). In Arabic we have two words for the two different concepts.

I would like to thank you for this blog.

I HUG YOU

Kold_Kadavr_flatliner said...

Bravo, girl! You have described in essence what my family's like: my Dad's pussy whipped - he's off in Nigeria being a brother, but my mom and sister have been caustic for 40+ years; with me having a speech deficit all my life and my mom being super insecure, she'd lissen to H who spoke fluently: always cutting-me-down, always cutting-me-off, always cutting-me-to-pieces. Joy. Thank God this lifetime is ending. God bless you. Meet me in Heaven.

Oneof7 said...

Thanks for this blog. The last face-to-face encounter with dear old mom was in 2008, when she slapped me across the face and told me all she could see was my father's face. I was 46 at the time. He died in 1988 and was the light of my heart. I am overweight, but always knew I would be because I was always told I was just like the fat, ugly German women in "his" family, none of whom I ever knew because she forbade him to have contact with any of them. He and I shared the same birthday. On my 21st, I was sitting on his knee by our cake and my husband was taking our picture. She came around the corner, became completely enraged at this, called me a whore, asked if I was ****ing my father, slammed her bedroom door, and that was that! Happy birthday. These kinds of scenes happened my whole life. I have never, ever been able to understand WHY she has never liked me. Is this why? Is it narcissism? I have 6 brothers and sisters, 1 of whom passed away in 1990 (she did not come to his funeral, but now says it's because none of her surviving children would help her, although when we called and told her of his death, she hung up the phone and wouldn't answer for 2 weeks). We were always the best dressed, lived in nice homes, did well in school (although only 2 out of 7 graduated). My parents (well, mother) had a very volatile, violent relationship and were married and divorced to each other at least 3 times, with countless separations and affairs on mom's part in between. Just yesterday there was more dad-bashing. I don't remember any of the horrible things she tells me he did, but I remember the things she did vividly, yet she does not. When confronted (which has been many years), she cries and says we are ungrateful, awful liars, and how can we think such horrible things, etc. etc. So, we just listen to her stories and try not to let the hurt get through, but sometimes you just want to scream inside. And sometimes you do. Is this narcissism? Is this what we have all been dealing with all of our lives? She's in her 80's, and it's getting worse. "Come for Christmas, Mom." "No, I can't. My back it too bad. I can't make the trip." Then she sits all Christmas day and cries, and tells her neighbors and acquaintances what rotten, ungrateful children she has. My sister spent one Thanksgiving in a hotel parking lot because Mom decided the night before she just wasn't up to all the stress, call her and told her not to come over. Help me understand this, if you can. I am almost 50. I don't want to repeat this cycle on my girls, although I honestly love them more than my own life, and I don't think I'm like her. But I don't know. She probably doesn't think she's like she is, either.

Boo said...

Oneof7 yes you could be describing my life too. It's, so sad as children we get verbally "kicked like a puppy" & still come back hoping to please her & try to work out how w can, never succeeding. I was mocked for thinking i was adopted... Made total sense in my mind that i was different, hated, an outsider.
& yes worrying we, are like them. It's hard not to hear yourself saying, or raging like they did, to your own children, even tho you have a million times more capability toward empathy for you're kids. Hard to break that pattern. I learned to control my breathing do i was asleep when they returned from a night out. Never did she come in to kiss me goodnight like she did the others.
Now,i have gone NC, my father who i have realised is her great enabler, & keeps me sucked into the drama, lets me be verbally abused etc, but after helping them out, doesn't call to talk to me only emails about seeing my kids. They'd bypass me totally if they could, cut me out like a tumour in the family tree that they can eradicate & chuck me aside, coz they are all fine. Funny that My Dad says, she's on deaths door & now she's booking holidays.
Part of me wishes i hadn't done NC, to keep my father from ignoring me, but like that kicked puppy, I'd just be going back for more abuse.
I worry that the verbal sometimes resurfaces to My kids. I know the value of "I'm sorry", & yet i worry how as a parent with empathy, i d have the power to propel my kids to healthy self esteem, & the same power to destroy it. Yikes that's a lot of responsibility.
What these our narc parents must have endured to enjoy the sadistic nature to watch other peoples, lives explode, & i have meet other, women my age who are like snakes on 2 legs... But it still takes getting burned by them to cut the friendship.
Also the beating that i was known at school for wearing my jumper in scorching summer & carrying a file constantly. I had been hit with a glass bottle & couldn't straighten my arm. To my horror it played like in slow motion. & i could never, work out why i didn't just let her beatings kill, by lowering my arms & let her crack my skull. Even in death i would have been blamed.
I just wish i had teachers to stand up for me, but like Erin, they thought i was a good story teller. I only told the light stuff..i probably would have been sectioned had i told about the beatings, coz she would have flatly denied it, as they do.
There is no win here. Just acknowledgment & search for your own survival & healing.

Boo said...

another...huge revelation. my birthday the other day, my dad who I wanted to keep in my life, I realise is,as much a game player as NM. no birthday wishes, just asked if I'd used his car while on their holidays... the bait that I owed him for his generosity... never enough. I thought that he couldn'tbe a nark coz he had feelings... I realise the (HIS)feelings are so egocentric, (& further reading helps me understand) that he projects his feelings, & classically as a CON I take on their emotions, but if & when I show or have my own emotions I'm met with "but think about how I feel", mine are invalidated one way or another. Argh. painful realizations.

Barbara Dion said...

Why aren't there any comments beyond 2009? Hello? We are at the end of 2014, and no updated comments?

Why did it end?

Anna Valerious said...

It is common for the thread of comments to end on each particular post. The comments are mostly concurrent with when the post was first written. People move on. The blog moves on. I stopped blogging several years ago which has also affected the commenting frequency. No conspiracy, just the natural order of things.