tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32237145.post8529045963481166741..comments2024-03-16T14:19:24.563-06:00Comments on Narcissists Suck: Is it Wrong to Hate?Anna Valerioushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02537877317873251678noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32237145.post-88240060520151538722010-08-24T20:41:16.969-06:002010-08-24T20:41:16.969-06:00Anna ~
WOW! I am a Christian and your words are s...Anna ~<br /><br />WOW! I am a Christian and your words are so true!! Love it, Anna! I so agree with these last two paragraphs!! And I love the clear teaching on hate and and anger here too. Too many Christians do believe that to feel or experience either of these is somehow sin or an indication of being unforgiving, especially if its against a parent. I wrote a post a little while ago where I explained that my anger does not indicate unforgiveness, that my anger was a justifiable anger because of what my narcisstic mother did to me. Too many Christians combine the two with bitterness also thrown into the mix. This new Christian social 'gospel of nice' is so damaging ... no wonder pastors don't preach repentence, or use the word 'sin' ... and wrongly teach that we are to love at the expense of our own souls. Well said, Anna! May God be glorified!<br /><br />I just read some other comments and can so relate their posts ... they knew my mother too! I know their pain, their hate, I GET IT! Especially with 'krl' and 'anonymous.' <br /><br />http://amaryllisbliss.wordpress.comAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32237145.post-87225941175630398592008-01-10T16:21:00.000-07:002008-01-10T16:21:00.000-07:00Thank you, Anna. Please do let us know when the a...Thank you, Anna. Please do let us know when the article in "O" Magazine comes out.<BR/><BR/>I'm interested to see what sort of track the questioning took. Was it more focused on your background with your N mom and what you came out of or was it focused on the blog and how it is helping people? Was it an article on you or on narcissism in general? (I realize that all of this will be answered when I see the article.)<BR/><BR/>But, I am also very curious as to how they found out about you??? Is there someone from the Oprah magazine who actually grew up with a narcissistic mom and happened upon your blog and found it helpful? If you don't mind, let us know the particulars of how they found you.<BR/><BR/>Thanks . . . I'm glad you did it and I will be looking forward to seeing it!!Cathyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04146169503042368869noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32237145.post-46816132041240707392008-01-10T09:08:00.000-07:002008-01-10T09:08:00.000-07:00NNL,Sorry, your question got lost in the shuffle f...NNL,<BR/><BR/>Sorry, your question got lost in the shuffle for a couple days. I did the interview. I have no idea when the article may be coming out. I haven't asked. I checked the January issue and didn't see it. If and when the article comes out, I'll let ya'll know.Anna Valerioushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02537877317873251678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32237145.post-71337626915224842572008-01-10T06:22:00.000-07:002008-01-10T06:22:00.000-07:00Just to back you up Anna, here's one from fellow A...Just to back you up Anna, here's one from fellow ACON, Kathy Krajco:<BR/><BR/>http://narc-attack.blogspot.com/2007/12/forgiving-one-who-deserves-forgiveness.htmlBarbarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10793044176961385860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32237145.post-9422711901015647442008-01-09T13:44:00.000-07:002008-01-09T13:44:00.000-07:00This might sound ridiculous to do but maybe it wil...This might sound ridiculous to do but maybe it will help some of you as much as it is helping me.<BR/><BR/>When I realized how much I have been brainwashed over the years....how words, Bible verses, sayings etc. have been used as 'tools' to trigger my responses and actions (by Nmom)....I am taking the time to drag out both dictionary...(a comprehensive one)....and various versions of the Bible. Wow. For example, look up the word 'hatred' in the dictionary. I can't believe how many different definitions there are. That word (just as one example) has as many variations as does the word 'love'. (Anyone out there been screwed over by the word 'love'?....Yeah....you'll get my drift. I found the word 'enmity' to fit much better than 'hatred'. I won't go into all this now....but see if it helps to repattern and redefine your thinking.<BR/><BR/>Same with Bible verses. I found so much more LIFE in branching out....studying what ELSE any particular verse means. (Other than as taught by Nmom...)....asking God what HE means. Another 'wow'.<BR/><BR/>There is a whole world of 'otherness' out there. I still have the NmomBlinders....but not so much. I am in the process of questioning EVERYTHING....jotting it down if I have a 'niggly' thought...and taking little bits of time to look again, look it up, ask myself and God that question mark I have about it. I swallowed so much of it, hook, line, and sinker, because there was just enough truth in how I was taught that I didn't question.<BR/><BR/>Happy trails....<BR/><BR/>krlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32237145.post-50372421364550437982008-01-09T11:53:00.000-07:002008-01-09T11:53:00.000-07:00NNL,I did a post on forgiveness on July 16, 2007. ...NNL,<BR/><BR/>I did a post on forgiveness on July 16, 2007. You can find it in the archives. <BR/><BR/>Your thoughts and questions on this subject in your comment are on the right track. Forgiveness is not supposed to be cheap grace handed out to non-repentant abusers.Anna Valerioushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02537877317873251678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32237145.post-30239237824170275302008-01-09T11:33:00.000-07:002008-01-09T11:33:00.000-07:00Ah, the whole "forgiveness" thing. Anonymous said....Ah, the whole "forgiveness" thing.<BR/><BR/> Anonymous said... <BR/>And that, of course, brings us full circle to the fact that it is okay to hate, and not to forgive, the people who have inflicted such terrible wrongs against us.<BR/><BR/>This probably has been dealt with before on the blog, I'm not sure.<BR/><BR/>But is it OK to "not forgive"? I've always thought that there is a way in which you can forgive BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN you have to reconcile. And that doesn't mean you don't hate what they've done or that you don't STILL hate it. And that doesn't mean that you have to go up to their face and tell them you forgive them. Because of course they will convolute it. What me??? I've done nothing that needs to be forgiven. <BR/><BR/>Isn't it something you work out between you and God? A way in which you give up the right to hold it against them and demand justice or recompense from that person? A way in which you put them into God's hands for ultimate judgment because His judgment is perfect? I don't know. . .<BR/><BR/>What I do know is that people always assume that if you forgive someone it is the equivalent of saying that what was done didn't matter or that it is okay. This is hardly the case. What was done will never be OK and you don't have to pretend otherwise. <BR/><BR/>But that didn't stop Jesus from forgiving us while we were yet sinners. Or forgiving Judas who betrayed him.<BR/><BR/>So what then exactly is forgiveness?Cathyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04146169503042368869noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32237145.post-4578532918169205122008-01-09T09:18:00.000-07:002008-01-09T09:18:00.000-07:00And that, of course, brings us full circle to the ...And that, of course, brings us full circle to the fact that it is okay to hate, and not to forgive, the people who have inflicted such terrible wrongs against us.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32237145.post-12680313382492824722008-01-08T18:27:00.000-07:002008-01-08T18:27:00.000-07:00Very well said. I heartily agree.Very well said. I heartily agree.Anna Valerioushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02537877317873251678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32237145.post-90474980497297486052008-01-08T17:51:00.000-07:002008-01-08T17:51:00.000-07:00You can look at hate two ways...action or emotion....You can look at hate two ways...action or emotion. The action version of hate is evil. Pure and simple. I wrestled with 'hate' for awhile. I would say I hated her...only I don't hate her, I hate what she did and does to me. I was talking to my therapist about it, and she told me to 'feel it'. FEEL everything. It's normal, and part of the process of healing. As hard as it was, I did feel like I hated her for awhile. But now I'm too the point where I don't hate her, I just hate what she did to me. I never 'acted' on that hate. I didn't do anything to her or anyone else. It was both part of the grieving and part of the healing. Like when a loved one dies...we hear a person say sometimes they hate God...even some of the most devout Godly people. When in actuality, they say it out of grief, unfairness, injustice. Time passes, and they come to love God again, most often times. <BR/><BR/>I don't feel bad about anything I felt or do feel as I am going through this process. What was done to me was NOT normal. What I am feeling in reaction to this, IS. So, no it is not wrong to hate, as long as you don't live in hate, or become bitter and angry over it. If it's an 'emotional reaction', as my therapist said...it's good.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32237145.post-15889961064866420422008-01-08T13:46:00.000-07:002008-01-08T13:46:00.000-07:00Somewhere, sometime and somehow -- I acquired the ...Somewhere, sometime and somehow -- I acquired the idea that hate is inseparable from fear. I know I deal much better with Narcissists when I am clear-minded, purposeful and my security -- or sense thereof --- is not vulnerable to them. So -- whatever it takes to cultivate those conditions.<BR/>I'm pretty sure the Lord views cherishing hate in our hearts as not beneficial to us. Operative word being "cherish" of course.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32237145.post-81344963831297691822008-01-08T10:09:00.000-07:002008-01-08T10:09:00.000-07:00Anonymous @ 4:26 a.m.,I find your comment quite co...Anonymous @ 4:26 a.m.,<BR/><BR/>I find your comment quite compelling for reasons I won't go into. Have you ever read the book by Chiniquy (a Catholic priest) titled "The Priest, the Woman, and the Confessional"? It was written in 1875. Quite eye-opening about the subject. He was an honest priest. He also brings up the subject of children.<BR/><BR/>I hope you notice that I did separate out feelings from thoughts. We are held accountable for our thought life by the Bible. A fleeting thought through one's mind is a temptation. Temptation doesn't become sin until you grab onto it. When you start holding onto the thought, fondling it, cherishing it, it becomes a part of you. Thoughts dictate behavior which is why we must learn to control our thoughts. And why we are held accountable for them by God. But feelings are separate from thoughts. How do we know this? Because we can use rationality and apply logic in order to act contrary to our feelings. <BR/><BR/>Proverbs 23:7 says "as he thinks in his heart, so is he." Our thoughts define who we are. Our character. This is because what we choose to think about influences our behavior. Notice it doesn't say, "as he <I>feels </I>in his heart, so is he." Yes, feelings can influence our thoughts. Ultimately, though, we are expected by God and man to make sure rational thought makes the decision..not the feeling.<BR/><BR/>But remember that a fleeting thought is not a sin. It is what you decide to do with that thought that matters. Dismiss it? Nurture it? The nurtured thought becomes your very own. It will either elevate or corrupt you. But we all get to choose whether to keep it or not.Anna Valerioushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02537877317873251678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32237145.post-54774370267059201312008-01-08T04:26:00.000-07:002008-01-08T04:26:00.000-07:00Thank you for addressing this. When I was growing...Thank you for addressing this. When I was growing up (50's) we were taught by the Catholic church that THINKING a thing was the same, sin-wise, as doing it. So, if you thought about killing someone, you were guilty in your mind of murder, and had to confess it as a mortal sin in confession.<BR/><BR/>Talk about brainwashing - guess those kids that were being abused by priests weren't supposed to be angry at their molesters either. Some days, as much as I don't like to pick on one religion specifically, I just can't think of an organization that has worked as hard at destroying children as they have.<BR/><BR/>Fortunately, I came to my senses in my 30's - but people my age are now dealing with older (and sicker) narcissists, and boy, it is hard to get rid of that catholic guilt! <BR/><BR/>Thanks so much for the quotes from the Bible - no wonder catholic church didn't let us read the bible - we had a catechism where they answered the questions for us - you get different answers in the bible! Imagine that!!!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32237145.post-42684599142110366342008-01-07T19:58:00.000-07:002008-01-07T19:58:00.000-07:00BTW Anna,What did you ultimately decide to do with...BTW Anna,<BR/><BR/>What did you ultimately decide to do with respect to the request for an interview by the Oprah magazine??Cathyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04146169503042368869noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32237145.post-55744413659815740262008-01-07T19:55:00.000-07:002008-01-07T19:55:00.000-07:00Anna,Thank you for addressing these issues that so...Anna,<BR/><BR/>Thank you for addressing these issues that so many of us have wrestled with. After I posed those questions, I was on Alice Miller's website and much of what I found there dovetails with what you presented.<BR/><BR/>Listen to this (from the above website):<BR/><BR/>"If our parents have treated us badly, possibly sadistically, and we are able to face up to the fact, then of course we will experience feelings of hatred. . . The full extent of the mistreatment inflicted upon a child cannot be dealt with all at once. Coming to terms with it is an extended process in which aspects of the mistreatment are allowed into our consciousness one after the other, thus rekindling the feeling of hatred. But in such cases, hatred is not dangerous. It is a logical consequence of what happened to us, a consequence only fully perceived by the adult, whereas the child was forced to tolerate it in silence for years."<BR/><BR/>Later she says, "What kind of person would I be if I could not react, temporarily at least, to injustice, presumption, evil, or arrogant idiocy with feelings of anger or rage? Would that not be an amputation of my emotional life? . . . Though our parents, teachers, or priests may have taught us to practice such self-amputation, we must ultimately realize that it is in fact very dangerous. There can be no doubt that we are then the victims of severe mutilation."<BR/><BR/>And listen to this:<BR/><BR/>"If someone attacks us on the street, we are hardly likely to give him a hug and thank him for the blows he has dealt us. But children almost always do precisely that when their parents are cruel to them, because they cannot live without the illusion of being loved by them. The adult has to learn to forsake the infant position and live with reality. Once you have learned to love the child you once were you cannot love his tormentors at the same time. . . It is only by way of self-delusion that individuals who have finally understood the children they once were can love the people who were cruel to them."<BR/><BR/>Wow . . .Cathyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04146169503042368869noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32237145.post-27688576941481345742008-01-07T16:56:00.000-07:002008-01-07T16:56:00.000-07:00Still struggling to reconcile hating my Nmother wi...Still struggling to reconcile hating my Nmother with Honor thy Father and Mother commandment.<BR/><BR/>I was raised that it was OK to shun/hate parents who tortured and physically abused their offspring (to the point of numerous beatings, sexual molestation, etc)<BR/><BR/>HOWEVER, all of Nmother's actions towards me, including corporal punishment were all metted out according to biblical priciples (in her mind) and i was forbidden to question anything she did or else be labelled as "rebellious, an ingrate, going to hell"<BR/><BR/>No, all of the emotional abuse was simply her being human and me being sub-human, a lesser creature not worthy of the same common decency she would show a stranger.<BR/><BR/>The verbal beatings i took from her on a weekly basis (didn't happen every day) were justified. She had to CRUSH my spirit in order to quash any ounce of rebellion against her and her decrees.<BR/><BR/>I hate that she thinks she will be richly rewarded in heaven for all of "HER SUFFERINGS" (aka. having to put up with such a mentally disturbed child - its all my problem you know). <BR/><BR/>I hate how she always must have the last word and NEVER apologizes to anyone for anything. <BR/><BR/>I hate how she lies, manipulates, and uses emotional blackmail to shift blame off of her shoulders and onto her victims. <BR/><BR/>I hate how I will never be able to get closure from her b/c with her its always war, war, WAR. She always has to be fighting someone over something. She doesn't want peace or a peaceful resolution. No negotiation. Its her way or the highway.<BR/><BR/>I hate that i drew the short straws when they were handing out mothers and ended up with such a selfish, consummed b*tch for a mother.<BR/><BR/>I hate how her N has permeated every facet of my life and how my days are spent wondering what the hell is wrong with me b/c she has disowned and rejected her children.<BR/><BR/>I hate how she robbed me of my childhood, teenage hood and now my young adulthood by offering nothing in the way of support as a loving parent should.<BR/><BR/>I hate feeling lost, alone, abandoned and orphaned.<BR/><BR/>I hate her guts and I hate hating her guts.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32237145.post-49452025290449500102008-01-07T15:42:00.000-07:002008-01-07T15:42:00.000-07:00This is an excellent post (again), Anna. My relig...This is an excellent post (again), Anna. My religious upbringing gave the 'OK' to 'hate the sin but not the sinner'. What wasn't explained to us was how that played out. Most of us probably went like lambs to the slaughter based on 'hating the sin' but still waiting on the N hand and foot. (WWJD? Lordee....Do you know how much I HATE that damn bumper sticker?) It wasn't clarified and no one asked the next right questions. The idea of shunning another person, judging them, confronting them.....much less hating them...was simply out of the question for GoodChristians. Bah!<BR/><BR/>What just kills me now....is that I DID hate her and people like her....and I felt bad about it. It never even crossed my mind to go 'no contact'. Yet, the church would have sanctioned it for me not to hang around criminals, child molesters, thieves, and drug addicts. But, Nmom stole my life, was emotionally incestuous,was addicted to all the attention, and set me up for slave labour. No difference that I can see. Granted, it was mainly my mother and 'going no contact' isn't quite as clear as one's neighbor....and I had gotten to the point that I could call her on her bad behaviour and lies (up to a point) but HATE her? Huh...funny thing...for years, I had hate-filled, rageful dreams about her. Hmmmmmm. Hullo? I know why now. Because I HATE her! Imagine that.<BR/><BR/>I have no feelings of revenge.....I just hate her...hate how I feel when I've had contact with her....hate what she does.....hate who she is. Period.<BR/><BR/>Yeah...good stuff, Anna. Thank you.<BR/><BR/>krlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com