tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32237145.post2503354030947414003..comments2024-03-16T14:19:24.563-06:00Comments on Narcissists Suck: My Two Cents on NPD Being Removed from the Newest DSMAnna Valerioushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02537877317873251678noreply@blogger.comBlogger32125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32237145.post-52583191525451879762016-09-10T16:48:22.645-06:002016-09-10T16:48:22.645-06:00You rock, tylerchill.You rock, tylerchill.Anna Valerioushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02537877317873251678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32237145.post-75855727803866158562016-09-10T15:35:14.844-06:002016-09-10T15:35:14.844-06:00One of the essential tools of a narcissistic abuse...One of the essential tools of a narcissistic abuser is to complicate and diffuse what otherwise is fairly straightforward. The DSM fits that bill. But just because the DSM is infected with narcissistic cockroaches doesn't mean it's not still useful. <br /><br />It is very helpful for the prescription of drugs for extreme pain and for the proper coding to expedite insurance claims. tylerchillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05153408509890930119noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32237145.post-91259791031554772132015-08-16T05:52:23.428-06:002015-08-16T05:52:23.428-06:00BRAVO!!!BRAVO!!! Ive never read anything quite so ...BRAVO!!!BRAVO!!! Ive never read anything quite so packed with emotion and convection that I feel your angst and frustration. It only leads to " my god what did they do to this girl". You are quite a ferocious and incredible survivor. Thanks for standing strong and giving others hope.toodazedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09544706915410613631noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32237145.post-83485666499481290692015-06-23T06:58:02.579-06:002015-06-23T06:58:02.579-06:00I have to agree on your opinion about "profes...I have to agree on your opinion about "professional" psychologists and / or psychiatrists. They seem to sit quietly in their ivory tower and look down on those who have problems just as an expedient for feeling superior. There may be some who are truly wise and compassionate, as well as some who made horrible experiences for example with narcissists, but I have yet to meet someone like that. I never met one professional who would have told me that my mother has NPD. I asked many different supposed professionals, including a priest, and then tried therapy twice: both therapists had the impertinence to tell me, right during the first meeting, that "my mother had been afraid of losing me".<br /><br />So if the other is "afraid", this justifies anything. And the therapist feels he has the right to top your pain with feelings of guilt, because oh, how could you be such a selfish, narrow-minded, cruel and ungrateful brat as to never try to understand your poor mommy darling's point of view?<br />I know very well that she was afraid of losing me (that is, to lose power and control over me - I know that now, for many years I let myself be convinced that she was merely afraid of losing my love for her). If I had not been keenly aware of this fear, I would not have allowed her to trap me emotionally, mentally and physically for decades, driving me almost to suicide or into an asylum. But these two oh-so-intelligent men seem to believe that a mother must never take responsibility for her own actions, being the mother. She is always to be excused, no matter how she abuses her child. I sacrificed countless things to that woman; she never saw it but believed that she had succeeded bullying me into "getting her way which is the only way". She believed me to be superficial and selfish when I experienced a little serenity and happiness and always was blind to my sacrifices for her sake.<br /><br />Well, after all I had gone to a therapist seeking help, so I guess I was supposed to take responsibility, not my abuser. The abuser, it seems, is excused as soon as you seek help, because the fact that the abuser does not seek help seems to prove that he is "strong" and thus doesn't need it, while you are a poor loser because you are ready and willing to sweep before your own door.<br />I can hardly say how much this attitude disgusts me. I wouldn't recommend anyone to seek advice with a therapist: some people swear they found help, but I never did, I only found I was looked down upon by people who were proud of being "sane" while I supposedly am not.<br /><br />Speaking of labels, an acquaintance of mine was labelled as Asperger because he is an introvert who is good at mathematics. That's the "help" you get - additionally to your troubles you are labelled as abnormal and sick and told that you will have to spend the rest of your life with your disturbance. Bah.<br /><br />I guess you're right - professionals don't want to be saddled with people with NPD because they know these will hardly ever seek therapy, and even if they do won't be cured by therapy but only learn to improve their manipulative skills. They simply don't want to waste their time on them, that is my opinion as to why NPD was removed from the DSM list.Amyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02827357802388386341noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32237145.post-62211716819759794332014-08-27T14:40:47.718-06:002014-08-27T14:40:47.718-06:00Anna,
I'm afraid I may have given the impress...Anna,<br /> I'm afraid I may have given the impression that you were not "in business."<br />On another site your name was raised, and I posted this:<br />Kathy <br /> <br /> August 25, 2014 at 6:19 pm <br /> <br /><br />"I love Anna V’s blog. She bid it farewell several years ago, and I’m happy for her. I hope it’s a real sign of her freedom to know move away from anything having to do with Ns, including her own blog. She is fabulous!"<br /><br />I'm sorry if I misunderstood - I was under the impression you no longer blogged, and I didn't realize that you still reviewed and approved comments.<br /><br />Wish you still blogged!!!!<br /><br />- KathleenKathleenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13835081351433288537noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32237145.post-22645490868030036282014-08-27T09:39:35.362-06:002014-08-27T09:39:35.362-06:00Depends on what you mean by being in business. I&...Depends on what you mean by being in business. I'm still here. I'm obviously not blogging. I do still read and approve comments for the blog. Anna Valerioushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02537877317873251678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32237145.post-42296946132661381732014-08-26T22:45:06.336-06:002014-08-26T22:45:06.336-06:00Anna - Are you still in business?Anna - Are you still in business?MOOSE-FUKD by: DSS, DHS, CPS...thieves of childrenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12580902658557619547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32237145.post-40507696622473638282012-08-18T01:45:27.373-06:002012-08-18T01:45:27.373-06:00Apparently, the DSM only considers conditions that...Apparently, the DSM only considers conditions that cause impairment and distress to the individual patient. If this patient has NPD, they don't suffer impairment or distress at all. Their close associates do. Hence, a blind spot in the DSM exists.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07259301979948243186noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32237145.post-29728855233065585812011-08-20T13:54:00.163-06:002011-08-20T13:54:00.163-06:00"They will be more concerned with no one bloc..."They will be more concerned with no one blocking the exits."<br /><br />Made my day! Thanks for the laugh!mulderfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07500535934417551223noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32237145.post-31441411193167195352011-08-20T13:13:05.783-06:002011-08-20T13:13:05.783-06:00I think their preoccupation about which label appl...I think their preoccupation about which label applies to what is much ado about nothing. Let them try living with one of these monsters. They will be more concerned with no one blocking the exits.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32237145.post-88227403133317202362011-07-20T14:16:08.598-06:002011-07-20T14:16:08.598-06:00Actually I find this a very interesting and intrig...Actually I find this a very interesting and intriguing development. I found it always a bit irritating that what I perceive as "evil" and "abusive" could be boxed into a "mental" or personality disorder. <br /><br />Obviously it doesn´t make a big difference for those who suffered from abuse, but legally and medically there could come some good out of this.<br /><br />For example,I prefer to see a child abuser for 10-life in prison than on the streets after two years of therapy. That just as a simplistic example.WalkTrainPlayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05217349096420030569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32237145.post-4199370888631552322011-02-02T10:14:22.202-07:002011-02-02T10:14:22.202-07:00I have just learned about NPD--I am 57--my mother&...I have just learned about NPD--I am 57--my mother's emotional abuse has sucked the life out of me for this long. I am shocked there hasn't been more on this disorder available--thank you for your blog. It is a real disorder, and learning about it has been a freeing experience. I feel like a dog having its choke-collar removed. My mother has scapegoated me since I was 12. I was a child slave, ignored and passed over for any kind of kindness. I watched my siblings being treated as perfect beings, rewarded, given gifts, lavish weddings. My parents tried to get out of coming to my wedding, and then convinced my siblings not to come. My mother has had her 7 children's baby photos on her dresser. At a recent weddng, I noticed mine was missing. When I asked about it, she flew into a rage--I never did find out why it had vanished. There is no picture of me in her house. Every time there is any family problem, I am blamed. Right now I am being blamed for my sister's break-up with her partner. It is hard to walk away because my father's life is nearing an end, but once he goes, I will leave for good. My mother has money and uses it to control. My siblings will label me for leaving as they all think my mother is perfect. They have a mutual admiration society. I kpe thoping that if I fixed myself, she would like me. (She kept telling me that too.)I know now it is not possible, and giving up is a huge relief. Thank you for your blog!prairiewomanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04408334514834910630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32237145.post-10753204862178842802010-12-19T12:47:20.137-07:002010-12-19T12:47:20.137-07:00Post 1. As a psychiatrist with personal experienc...Post 1. As a psychiatrist with personal experience with NPDs, I fully concur with Anna's views that this change in the DSM is essentially a non-event for all the reasons she enumerated. Perhaps some additional information about the DSM may be helpful in fully appreciating some of the reasons for its meretriciousness. (To save some of you from consulting a dictionary, "meretricious" is defined as apparently attractive but having in reality no value or integrity. I also use this word not unintentionally for its archaic meaning - of, relating to, or characteristic of a prostitute.)<br /><br />Some of the individuals who first developed the DSM are well known among psychiatric circles to have severe NPD themselves. The interests of one DSM "innovator" in particular were in statistics and in ways to categorize knowledge generally. At the time in the 1960s, a dedicated system of classification of mental disorders was lacking. Previously these disorders were given codes in a manual called the International Classification of Diseases (ICD) along with all other medical disorders. Seeing an "opportunity," one DSM originator chose to go to medical school and specialize in psychiatry exclusively in order to have the credentials to create a classification system. Medicine and psychiatry were merely means to another end. The womb of the DSM resided in an obsessive individual who possessed a prominent dearth of humanity and who by the same token could have easily chosen to classify machine tools, toads or sea shells. In addition, for the initial DSM there was very little consensus. It is the product of just a few individuals. This was the inauspicious inception of the run-away train we now call the DSM.<br /><br />Another critical point to remember is that the primary impetus for a classification of mental disorders was for research purposes - not for clinical utility. That is why it is a diagnostic and STATISTICAL manual. The use of medications in psychiatry began in earnest in the 1950s creating a need to do clinical trials. A system was needed to enable researchers to group individuals together diagnostically. One cannot for example do a trial of a drug for schizophrenia without defining the population for which the medication is purported to be effective. Thus the birth of the DSM and its subsequent revisions has been influenced in no small way by changes in the field of psychiatry and in pharmaceutical technology. <br /><br />The pharmaceutical industry is not the only one that has influenced the evolution of the DSM. Since the 1980s, the health insurance industry has exerted an increasingly formidable influence on the way mental health disorders are viewed. Because it determines the reimbursement of treatment services, it creates demands on the field for the EXPLICIT purpose of decreasing expenditures. This industry has clearly had an impact on how individuals are diagnosed. In stage one, personality disorders were excluded from any reimbursement. The DSM then responded by creating all sorts of other reimbursable categories into which a psychiatrist could "fit" that patient. More recently the insurance companies for reimbursement considerations have created strata of severity of mental illnesses in which, for example, major depression, schizophrenia and full-blown bipolar disorder are reimbursed more fully than other less debilitating "disorders" such as adjustment disorders, anxiety disorders, etc.<br /><br />Perhaps one day a historian will go back and rigorously track the developments in the DSM against the developments in the pharmaceutical and insurance industries. I am convinced that we will see clear concordance. (Continued)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32237145.post-60190220392310257622010-12-15T10:42:29.295-07:002010-12-15T10:42:29.295-07:00"Whatever happens, you can bet that NPD will ..."Whatever happens, you can bet that NPD will still be with us for awhile. While you can take NPD out of the DSM, you can't as easily take NPD out of the people who have it."<br /><br />By Randi Kreger, Psychology Today, 12/1/2010<br />http://tinyurl.com/2aevspt<br /><br />- KathleenKathleenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13835081351433288537noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32237145.post-81421084461684620662010-12-15T08:26:14.455-07:002010-12-15T08:26:14.455-07:00Barbara,
Yes, that is where it belongs, but it ce...Barbara,<br /><br />Yes, that is where it belongs, but it certainly remains to be seen if it will actually be put there. Nothing in the article hinted at what your psychologist friends have surmised. I hope your friends are right, though.Anna Valerioushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02537877317873251678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32237145.post-76582266278515725262010-12-15T07:16:29.685-07:002010-12-15T07:16:29.685-07:002 Psychologist friends said NPD is being folded in...2 Psychologist friends said NPD is being folded into Psychopathy/ Sociopathy - perhaps this is where it belongs - since most Ns are (IMHO) high functioning Psychopaths and it is on the same spectrum.Barbarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10793044176961385860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32237145.post-42506305595904571022010-12-13T09:41:14.382-07:002010-12-13T09:41:14.382-07:00Thank you, Julie. It means a lot to me to have yo...Thank you, Julie. It means a lot to me to have you tell me that.Anna Valerioushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02537877317873251678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32237145.post-16391622388459632882010-12-12T19:35:29.228-07:002010-12-12T19:35:29.228-07:00I just want to take a moment to tell you "tha...I just want to take a moment to tell you "thank you." You have such a special place in my heart. I am a southern girl and no one (besides you, my wonderful therapist and my husband) thinks it is okay to not speak to my mom. You getting this and you being a Christian has given me so much freedom to live and be and create and I am grateful to you for taking the time to write this blog so others can benefit from your wisdom!! This blog really meant a lot to me. JulieJulie Hollowayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17727969951483106430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32237145.post-8351134217712252082010-12-12T09:50:01.940-07:002010-12-12T09:50:01.940-07:00It's good to hear your voice again:) I eagerl...It's good to hear your voice again:) I eagerly read all of your posts last year, then I copied them off and worked through my issues by scribbling my thoughts and feelings in the margins. Though I was sad that you stopped blogging, I rejoiced in your victory:) <br /><br />Thank you for writing from a well- informed Christian perspective. Sadly, my NF often twisted the Bible to suit his selfish whims. I'm successfully NC with my NF and EM for 16 months, largely due to reading your blog immediately after cutting them off. Thank you!!!<br /><br />I wholeheartedly agree with you. Who cares what the so-called experts call the evil among us?! I know what I know. <br /><br />I'm 51, happily married with a 25 yo son. My NF is a retired missionary and pastor. My two brothers and I repeatedly saw my so-called father instantly change from a selfish, pouting, raging nut job to a how-can-I-help-you saint at the ring of a door bell. <br />Being forced to listen to him lie from the pulpit during hundreds of sermons was the ultimate in bend- over-and-take-it punishment!<br /><br />My *father* obviously *chose* how to behave depending on what would get him what he wanted in the moment. Very deliberate!! <br /><br />Given what I personally witnessed countless times over 51 years, I REFUSE to let my NF off the hook by calling his *deliberate* evil behavior a disease he's *unable* to shuck off. Sorry, Daddy, I'm holding your feet to The Fire.Jasminehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166710072227657016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32237145.post-24241227395077713732010-12-11T19:14:40.002-07:002010-12-11T19:14:40.002-07:00I read someplace that Ns will still fall within a ...I read someplace that Ns will still fall within a personality disordered category if this happens. In my mind Narcissist is still the most accurate label. Where did I read that? Wish I remembered. I think what I read is that this would be combined with something--was it sociopath or borderline? can't dig that info out of the brain--but it would still be a cluster B personality disorder--I think that's what it is- a B. No matter--those of us familiar with the thing will still know its a really bad thing.EWriterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10843325009367563726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32237145.post-86056981158588517892010-12-11T08:12:04.991-07:002010-12-11T08:12:04.991-07:00The "eggheads" are the academicians, i.e...The "eggheads" are the academicians, i.e., the ones who hang out with books, not clients. I doubt that is what your daughter plans to be.<br /><br />Here's hoping you're right that the new batch of grads will be more aware of the problems that narcissism present. Especially to the victims. The narcissists don't have a problem...it's everyone around them who need the help!Anna Valerioushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02537877317873251678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32237145.post-28068866013562659522010-12-11T06:23:06.416-07:002010-12-11T06:23:06.416-07:00Of course, we wont' really know what path the ...Of course, we wont' really know what path the psychologists and psychiatrists will take in the future until we get there, but there is a bright side. Narcissism has been so talked about, so "out of the closet" that many younger people are aware of it.<br /><br />One of those younger people is my daughter who will be going on to grad school next year --- she wants to be one of those egghead psycologists. She's been taught about narcissism in school (it's still in the DSM now!) and has also been exposed to her grandparents. SHE believes it's a real and dangerous condition.<br /><br />All those in school now, undergrad and grad, are being taught about it. Perhaps the DSM notwithstanding, the new younger batch of psychologists will be more aware.<br /><br />- KathleenKathleenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13835081351433288537noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32237145.post-15274898110156629402010-12-10T20:22:02.813-07:002010-12-10T20:22:02.813-07:00I found your blog a few years back, and will never...I found your blog a few years back, and will never remove it from my RSS... your blog was a beacon of sanity when I was going through hell dealing with my own mother.<br /><br />I agree that the DSM changing or removing NPD doesn't make a bit of difference; the absence of an official label doesn't matter.CandyGirlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10664818861874419334noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32237145.post-77699658216636000072010-12-10T14:32:07.242-07:002010-12-10T14:32:07.242-07:00Thank you for your view on this, Shaun. If it is i...Thank you for your view on this, Shaun. If it is indeed as you describe then it would be an improvement. Time will tell how it will all shake out. Either way, I'm good. How the professionals parse this shit out doesn't matter much to me.Anna Valerioushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02537877317873251678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32237145.post-28204004363638495582010-12-10T11:43:01.146-07:002010-12-10T11:43:01.146-07:00Even if the NPD label is removed from the newest D...Even if the NPD label is removed from the newest DSM, I know for a fact that NPD truly does exist. Several relevant names were mentioned in earlier posts. I agree with all of them.<br /><br />I thank you Anna for this blog as it helped me realize who the true villans were in my life by reinforcing my sanity.<br /><br />Given the fact that the N personality adamantly denies any accountability for their actions, they are immune from counseling. They are basically right when they say "It's your problem, deal with it"Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09177588061066068825noreply@blogger.com