tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32237145.post1059146829471424356..comments2024-03-16T14:19:24.563-06:00Comments on Narcissists Suck: The High Price of Peace at Any CostAnna Valerioushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02537877317873251678noreply@blogger.comBlogger54125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32237145.post-33154865075388828042014-01-13T22:12:07.672-07:002014-01-13T22:12:07.672-07:00Hey Anna, old post I realise but I have to flip th...Hey Anna, old post I realise but I have to flip the roles and my dad is an N with mum as enabler. I get what you are saying, she chooses him over me always and now she has no contact with me (and him) to contend with because of him, his Nism and her enabling. Kristenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13120404855953533545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32237145.post-49278459969773864392012-01-06T06:00:56.658-07:002012-01-06T06:00:56.658-07:00Oh, Wow! The peacemaker. This happened to me at ou...Oh, Wow! The peacemaker. This happened to me at our Mom's funeral. I was accused some stealing $40, and I was upset over this and fought back, which caused my one sister who really did the most of the accusing, to be very upset, and so the Peace Maker sister asked me to apologize to her because she was upset. I was shocked but apologized and then added, but I didn't take the money. And that sister snickered and said, "We love you anyway." I left and couldn't wait to get home. I wrote them letters saying I didn't wish to be in contact with them if they think that about me, and then a Buddhist nun I went to talk with said that family was important. Make up. That was a mistake as neither of them have ever admitted to me that they thought I took the money, even though my brother and his wife walked in and heard the entire family blaming me. As if I didn't hear the blame myself, so I guess he and I are both lying.<br /><br />Now I don't believe that I could ever prove to anyone in my family that I did not take the money, except that I have one brother who believes and stood up for me.thetrousermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17000982994612471081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32237145.post-90373831610115351362011-07-11T14:04:26.000-06:002011-07-11T14:04:26.000-06:00'By the way, in my case the Nparent is now dea...'By the way, in my case the Nparent is now dead, and I don't know if this is at all typical but the appeaser sib is as bad as ever if not actually worse. I had naively hoped that a spell of sorts would be broken once the N was out of the picture, but no, not at all. The only big difference was that she suddenly tried extra hard to develop a startlingly different relationship with me, one in which 'this time' she got to be the full-blown N. Yeah, no kidding. It was as absurd as seeing a bully's obsequious lackey try and step into his shoes without the power of the bully behind him.<br />I guess she wanted to keep it all going, the 'world' in which she was 'good' for appeasing and I was 'bad' for resisting, the world that she had paid such a high price to belong to.<br /><br />Now she is lost in a no-mans-land: the N is gone, and she refuses to align with the truth of her experience which means no self to go back to either.'<br /><br />This is exactly what is happening in my life now! Exactly! Am following the laws of LC and will go NC with the whole blinking lot if necessary. I'm no longer a cocker spaniel (what an accurate analogy!). Thanks for this wonderful, enlightening blog, and hugs and good wishes to all fellow sufferers of narcissists and the monsters they create(not me ha ha, I'm free) :)Pitstophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11198811618537849870noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32237145.post-40954656929023290252011-06-19T10:40:11.129-06:002011-06-19T10:40:11.129-06:00I just stumbled across this blog. I must admit tha...I just stumbled across this blog. I must admit that I am a reformed sheep. I was married for 20 years to a narcissist, but that was 20 years ago too. I haven't spoken to him since the divorce but his protege has recently resurfaced. Mr. Narcissist had a daughter before we married and she is also a NPD as well as the older sibling to my three children. His daughter recently invaded the lives of her younger, but nonetheless, adult brother and sisters. My son (33) hasn't spoken to his dad in nearly 15 years. My daughters (twins, 35) have cursory annual contact with him via phone at Christmas and none with their step-sister. I am very fortunate that my children understood my shortcomings and forgave me for trying to make the impossible marriage/family situation work for 20 years. The four of us have a healthy, fun and respectful relationship in a part of the country far away from those people. Their step-sister recently located addresses on all three of my children and began sending a series of hateful letters defending her 'loving father.' It was difficult to watch their pain return as they discussed this ugly situation. However, they worked through it emotionally as they supported each other in continuing the estrangement while forcusing on their united mental health. (They did email their father who justified her as merely being protective of him.) I am very proud of them and their ability to make healthy choices. The real kicker is that this Narcissistic Half Sister accused her "Loving Father" of sexual abuse when she was a teenager. He is a horrible man and certainly inflicted pain on the rest of the family, but we never believed him to be a deviant. He never molested the other children and the half-sister's case never went to court. We are grateful to be far removed from that mess. My children decided to ignore her letters and hope she loses interest in tormenting them. I sm not sure what will happen at Christmastime when the twins receive their father's annual phone call. I don't know if they will talk to him or not. I'm deeply grateful that they have each other to help in their struggle. I try to stay out of it as much as possible because I don't have the ongoing heartache that they do as his children. They are adults and have to do what is best for them as individuals. My pain rests in accepting that I am the conduit that chose their father for them. Ouch! Good luck to all!VitaminB12https://www.blogger.com/profile/04323572697682702095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32237145.post-68632625724250936632010-09-15T14:11:46.563-06:002010-09-15T14:11:46.563-06:00I agree, Joder23. I've never advocated going ...I agree, Joder23. I've never advocated going no contact as a means of reforming or shocking a narcissist out of their bad behavior, but I know some people tend to cling to this idea. So thank you for clarifying on this point. Going no contact is about self-preservation and not about reformation of the narcissist. I've had a bit to say on the subject of the savior complex, and what you've addressed is an aspect of that very thing.Anna Valerioushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02537877317873251678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32237145.post-67270125778178684552010-09-15T13:42:14.192-06:002010-09-15T13:42:14.192-06:00"Actually, that is a form of standing up to s..."Actually, that is a form of standing up to someone. Quiet, sure, but maintaining low contact does send a message, and it works for him."<br /><br />Wanted to comment on this. I've learned from experience not to count on estrangement to send a "message" to the evildoer. Even if the evildoer understands the message, that doesn't mean he'll use the message as a catalyst to improve.<br /><br />I think we all want to believe that if we cut someone off for a few years, that will shock the evil person into improving, and then you can reconcile with new, mutual respect. Most of the time, as in 99% of the time, that's just not in the cards. <br /><br />I've learned that cut-offs work best if you use them for the singular, simple purpose of preventing new, harmful interactions between you and the abuser. Cut-offs don't tend to work as well as motivators or statements.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03251062649568456166noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32237145.post-69989482697607129892009-08-26T09:40:42.937-06:002009-08-26T09:40:42.937-06:00I have found it to be absolutely damaging and dist...I have found it to be absolutely damaging and distressing to EVER discuss my feelings with a sociopath or narcissist. NEVER EVER do it. Go discuss it with a balanced person, but never ever with an N or S. <br />Doing so is exactly like sticking your hand out to feed a scrap of meat to a wild animal.<br />SoniSoni Cidohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14135781284820610979noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32237145.post-89560001225898584372009-08-24T17:31:29.827-06:002009-08-24T17:31:29.827-06:00Thanks Anna. I have been rereading about appeaser...Thanks Anna. I have been rereading about appeasers after an overnight visit from what was a dear old friend and his new wife. The guy had been someone I knew for years and years, and never had a problem with. Until now. I quickly noticed that his new wife was a classic N [my growing suspicions confirmed after she embarrassed us all by having a public fit in a restaurant, revealingly over an issue involving her needing to be perceived as superior]. He not only accepted this behavior 'as is', but was in a panic to smooth things over and placate her. OK, I thought, maybe he is just avoiding a fight in public.<br /><br />As things played out over their stay, I realized the lengths to which he would go to "keep the peace". Turns out he wasn't just avoiding fights to be polite in front of company. He was also willingly betraying his friends and acting against what I knew to be his former values and character. Not only did he not challenge or question her N behavior, he actually joined in and went along with her inconsiderate behavior and expectations at the real expense of his friends/friendships. It was as if him joining in/acting like she was "normal" or acceptable would somehow make it so. Yeah, maybe in HIS mind. I don't need my reality assaulted, nor do I need to be tag-teamed by an appeaser and his N.<br /><br />Thanks for taking all the time to archive your subjects. It has been extremely helpful to turn to this site as a resource to get perspective on this event. I know I cannot remain friends with him, my trust has been broken and my view of his character has plummeted. <br /><br />Thanks for laying out the tools for ID'ing not only the N's, but their equally destructive appeasers. I am sorry to lose what I truly thought was a long term friend, but I will not subject myself to further "team N" abuse. As you say, "life is too short", and we have all got other things to do besides being pulled into the N rip tide. <br /><br />Many thanks again for this resource. It is so valuable and practical, and you have made it easy to use for reference. Many thanks.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32237145.post-61213545320478273912009-05-29T04:54:18.919-06:002009-05-29T04:54:18.919-06:00I'm reading everything in your blog as I am just n...I'm reading everything in your blog as I am just now going the no-contact route. The catalyst was my father's death - he and my mother had been divorced for 30 years. I had a good relationship with him since then and that drove my mother crazy as I was supposed to hate him on her behalf. I will never forget her saying 'I will win in the end." Here's what she did when he was dying - she made sure, through my sister, his last wishes were ignored and they arranged to have him cremated. The rest is too detailed to go into here, but she also humiliated him as he lay dying. I only found out about this indirectly and when I confronted her she denied that she did any harm and she was "sorry if she upset me"! Next thing I know I get a scathing letter from my sister that things weren't as bad as they sounded and I owe her an apology.<br />One thing I can be thankful for is this was the catalyst that made me look into what has been happening my entire life, leaving me confused and guilty and I had no idea why, but of course I always ended up blaming myself. You and the commenters have written my story so exactly it's spooky. Anyone who can't see the pattern is in grave denial. Thank you all for giving me a place where I can replenish my sense of sanity and self.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32237145.post-43061425166268006952008-07-31T11:12:00.000-06:002008-07-31T11:12:00.000-06:00Peacemakers in the "church" are nothing but "pew m...Peacemakers in the "church" are nothing but "pew muffins". Soft, gushy, keeping "sweet". They have never been bitten. Narcs don't like the taste of a pew muffin-they go for the real meal.Soni Cidohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14135781284820610979noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32237145.post-9049573429267616312008-07-01T12:16:00.000-06:002008-07-01T12:16:00.000-06:00I know that you are on vacation but I just wanted ...I know that you are on vacation but I just wanted to let you know that I agree when people seem to lose actual intelligence after living with an N.<BR/><BR/>My experience both with an N parent and an N friend is that they do tend to infantilize you by either insisting on doing things for you or making the decisions for you.<BR/><BR/>If someone is continuously making decisions for you then its not possible to develop that decision making 'muscle' so to speak. And we all know that if you don't use a muscle then it atrophies. <BR/><BR/>That is the other thing that makes peace at any price so awful. If and when the narcissist leaves either because they die or because they have used you up, you are left with the resulting feelings of shame, anger, despair, hurt, bewilderment and also coming to realize that you perhaps have severely stunded skills for coping with the real world outside of the bubble in which you and your narcissist created.<BR/><BR/>That aside if you have practiced peace at any price with your family then even when you realize the consequences of your choice and even if you are truly sorry how do you make up for being a co-conspirator so to speak? It makes it really hard to go back.Debbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12125469816409653269noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32237145.post-48152786188809169762008-04-04T20:49:00.000-06:002008-04-04T20:49:00.000-06:00"N, you have gone too far. You have made a threat,..."N, you have gone too far. You have made a threat, and that is against the law, under section XXX of the anti-stalking law #123. So, I'm warning you, cease and desist right now. We're keeping your letter as evidence. We'll hand it over to the police if you ever bother us again."<BR/><BR/>HA! Brilliant!!<BR/><BR/>We don't have to be jerks but we cannot show any vulnerability. <BR/><BR/>I learned the hard way, too. For a long time it was incomprehensible to me that my own husband could care less about my tears. <BR/><BR/>Expressing my feelings only made him more grandiose, not less.<BR/><BR/><BR/>CZCZBZhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09575206236892096611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32237145.post-71957592459399999662008-04-04T13:26:00.000-06:002008-04-04T13:26:00.000-06:00Steph wondered why we shouldn't share our feelings...Steph wondered why we shouldn't share our feelings with Ns. I learned that lesson long ago. Here's what happened.<BR/><BR/>N sent me a threatening letter. This was the pinnacle of N's attacks on me, over many years. My spouse decided to confront the N. So, he foolishly said that the N shouldn't have done this because it hurt my feelings.<BR/><BR/>BAM! The N sent another threatening letter, anonymously, with more of the same.<BR/><BR/>I had not expressed hurt feelings. I had expressed anger to my spouse. There is a difference. There is no way I would call an N and say, "Stop it. You're hurting my feelings." That had never stopped the N before. Here's what I would have said:<BR/><BR/>"N, you have gone too far. You have made a threat, and that is against the law, under section XXX of the anti-stalking law #123. So, I'm warning you, cease and desist right now. We're keeping your letter as evidence. We'll hand it over to the police if you ever bother us again."<BR/><BR/>So, it did come down to a cease and desist letter. We changed our phone number. And the N stopped.<BR/><BR/>Share your feelings with your friends, not your enemies.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32237145.post-61579690618088007952008-04-04T08:53:00.000-06:002008-04-04T08:53:00.000-06:00" ... surrendered his integrity in order to keep p..." ... surrendered his integrity in order to keep peace with the devil"<BR/><BR/>Excellent way to put it.Thee Erinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10680104683844802099noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32237145.post-4159282765968759952008-04-03T08:13:00.000-06:002008-04-03T08:13:00.000-06:00Anna, My NH switched crossed over to his siblings,...Anna, My NH switched crossed over to his siblings, who are all Ns! In the past, he never wanted them to visit. Now because I discovered his infidelities and booted him out, he went crawling to them! I was the peacemaker until I realized he is what he is, only getting older and ever worst at his antics! <BR/><BR/>The best way to unmask Ns is to turn the tables on them! Once discovered, they really 'blossom' and you can see the gaps between his grandiose and reality. It is as if it is too much effort to put up the act anymore, especially if they have several acts on at the same time.<BR/><BR/>Took me a long time to get over this realization, but getting over this nightmare, I am.<BR/><BR/>So Anna, if Ns live their entire lives on lies, what happens to them as they grow older?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32237145.post-25821331701894050792008-04-03T07:40:00.000-06:002008-04-03T07:40:00.000-06:00I totally agree with you Anna about peacemakers an...I totally agree with you Anna about peacemakers and bystanders. When I first read about N.P.D. it was a complete revelation - suddenly everything clicked into place. I have spent many hours reading everything I can find. With this knowledge I can look at what an N does in a completely different way and understand what he is doing and why. Without this knowledge, you can only try and understand it on the basis that you are dealing with a normal human being, which is not the case. I however find it very difficult to get others to understand this condition. Perhaps you have to spend a lot of time reading about it to get the necessary understanding, though I do feel that anyone who has had experience of an N should "get it" fairly quickly. Has anyone had any success in getting others associated with their N to read about the condition - were they just unwilling to spend the time, or did they read about it but just didn't get it, or did they read about it but refused to accept that this was the explanation for the N's behaviour ? I feel that this is important because the peacemakers and bystanders cause us just as much ( if not more ) grief as the N. I have given up trying to get others to understand this condition and how it applies to the N. I always seem to end up looking the crazy one !<BR/>While I realise that those without the knowledge of NPD will have difficulty in trying to deal with the N, they all know what evil and unacceptable behaviour is so they must know that there is something wrong with the N. How can we make them see ????Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32237145.post-42141253675484675482008-04-01T18:19:00.000-06:002008-04-01T18:19:00.000-06:00Thanks for addressing my question concerning sibli...Thanks for addressing my question concerning siblings being N's. Books I have read seem to focus most on the N boss, mate or parent, not siblings or indeed whole families [being either N's or N collaborators]. When I look for any information on sibling problems, everything seems to go into the 'rivalry' box, which seems to minimize the idea of significant difficulties. You are quite right too - people seem rather casual about the idea of not getting along with siblings, unlike parent problems. <BR/><BR/>Odd what outrages people and what doesn't, when the same behaviors are done by different people, be it parents, siblings, friends or strangers. We are expected to forgive family members for things which if committed by strangers did we would be urged to call the police. When I was a teen, I ended up in the hospital the result of a beating by a sib. Teachers, clergy, hospital staff - as well as every single other adult in my life actually - didn't bat an eye about the circumstances, at least not around me. True, this was the 70's, and awareness about things like this were generally abysmal, but I know if it was done by a stranger an entirely different scenario would have unfolded.<BR/><BR/>I have just looked up your reference to your "mob family" post. Bulls eye. In my family 'nice' was certainly stressed, but it wasn't #1. That spot was called LOYALTY. As it had been drummed into my head from the earliest years [as a very young child I was the only kid I knew of that could be specifically punished for disloyalty] so it was a real trigger point. Being accused of disloyalty was The Worst. Only as an adult did I realize it wasn't true loyalty at all that was being asked of us. The yardstick that was used to measure 'good' or 'bad' family members had nothing to do with intrinsic values or true commitment to one another, it was degree of submission to the leader [only], falsely called "family loyalty". <BR/><BR/>Well, thanks again for your thoughts on my question. There is always so much food for thought here. I am often thinking about your posts over a period of days, and find much solace and camaraderie in all the comments. Like other commenters, I too am amazed at how many similarities I find to my own circumstances.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32237145.post-32507783377280358822008-04-01T16:01:00.000-06:002008-04-01T16:01:00.000-06:00Ruby and the others who brought up the concept of ...Ruby and the others who brought up the concept of "second hand glow" - I have not heard such a perfect expression in a while. The subject of "peacemaking" sucked me in, because that's my stepfather in a nutshell, but the "second hand glow" grabbed me in the comments section.<BR/><BR/>I also ended up doing very well in life, though only due to the fact that I got away from both my parents (who were divorced) at an early age. A counselor at my junior high school noticed that I was very unhappy at home, but had great grades and test scores. With her help, I was soon at a boarding school on full scholarship. As my father said more than once, "I cost less to send to an expensive school than to keep at home."<BR/><BR/>Of course while I was there, both my parents pretended that they were paying full tuition. From there I went to an Ivy, and married someone I met there who is from a lovely, well-off, stable family who has welcomed me.<BR/><BR/>Due to events over the past few years, I finally had to ask for NC from my mother (dad went a long time ago, he was worse). Not permanent NC, just temporary, while I get my thoughts together. No, I told her, I don't know how long it will take.<BR/><BR/>The email campaign has been unbelievable. The drama queen (mom) has become this meek little mouse - do I remember when she told me which boarding school was the prettiest? That's the one I chose, and she is so happy to think that even though I couldnt' live with her, she did her small part in where I went to boarding school, that boarding school led to college, where I wouldn't have met my spouse, etc.<BR/><BR/>That's right, because she pointed out a pretty school in a brochure, that's why I'm where I am today ... how far away can that glow get, again? Third hand, fourth hand, fifth hand - ?<BR/><BR/>The other comment I had was about the Peacemaking. That's my stepfather, who lives with my mother, which is more than I can say I've done since I was 8 years old. When she's impossible to deal with, he has to deal with the fallout, so he's been trying to do anything to get me to "make up" with my mother ... the last time was when he sent a "personal and confidential" Fed Ex to my SPOUSE's office ... asking them to please intercede with my "apparent fantasies of wrongdoing" ...<BR/><BR/>Words could not express ...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32237145.post-47835388796670404862008-04-01T12:31:00.000-06:002008-04-01T12:31:00.000-06:00I was not describing intellectual laziness...I was...I was not describing intellectual laziness...I was describing an intentional twisting of reality as contributing to loss of intelligence. I also don't believe that all Alzheimer and dementia is caused by Nism. There can be organic causation for mental decline in old age. But there does seem to be a large amount of anecdotal evidence that perhaps Ns make themselves even more prone to dementia in old age due to the constant brain-f**king they've done to themselves. It would be interesting if someday science would follow up on the anecdotal evidence someday.Anna Valerioushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02537877317873251678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32237145.post-22492717589658780592008-04-01T12:24:00.000-06:002008-04-01T12:24:00.000-06:00I don't know about intellectual laziness causing d...I don't know about intellectual laziness causing dementia/alzheimer's. The people I have known with this disease included a university professor and a medical professional, both active and involved in their retirement years.<BR/><BR/>But perhaps for the MN, the "use it or lose it" theory does apply. Empathy and humanity, unused, will wither and die.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32237145.post-3916727540140316442008-04-01T11:26:00.000-06:002008-04-01T11:26:00.000-06:00"That said, he rarely answers her phone calls thes..."That said, he rarely answers her phone calls these days. Sometimes she won’t hear from him for weeks at a stretch."<BR/><BR/>Actually, that is a form of standing up to someone. Quiet, sure, but maintaining low contact does send a message, and it works for him. <BR/><BR/>As for N being contagious. It's not a virus, it's just behaviors that people tend to pick up for whatever reason. Maybe it's because they think it's "strong" or maybe it's how they profit. Who cares? What matters is that they have chosen to be Ns.So, what IS in a heart?https://www.blogger.com/profile/00482423451947167280noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32237145.post-59499569349219557302008-04-01T11:25:00.000-06:002008-04-01T11:25:00.000-06:00Is it possible this can be contagious??My husband ...Is it possible this can be contagious??<BR/>My husband is a narcissist, his mother is a narcissist, now his 13 year old daughter is making me wonder. I must say it took me years to catch on to what was happening and what he was doing to me, but I caught on alright!!<BR/>Now that he know's that I'm aware of his game/illness, I am now the enemy. He has now enlisted his teenaged daughter in his antics, she willingly goes along. Is this contagious??<BR/>I am so thankful to God that he opened my eyes.<BR/>And Thanks to you Anna and fellow bloggers for this site.<BR/><BR/>P.S.<BR/>I think my mother was an N, that's where I learned or was conditioned to tolerate such nonsense!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32237145.post-10464868751844785422008-04-01T11:21:00.000-06:002008-04-01T11:21:00.000-06:00It's harder to forgive the non-N parent isn't it? ...<I>It's harder to forgive the non-N parent isn't it? Because they're not nearly so deluded; with them there's a chance that they can and should understand, should SEE.</I><BR/><BR/>I agree. In fact, I have contended here on my blog that the non-N parent is just as evil, if not more so, than the malignant narcissist. There is less excuse for the non-N parent to stand by and allow abuse because they are not wrapped up in the crazy convolutions of a N brain. Obviously I don't believe there is any excuse for a MN's behavior, but I find even less reasons to justify a non-N allowing the predations of the MN upon their own children. To stand by and not stop abuse means you too are an abuser. By proxy. In my Nov. 30, 2006 post about my father I declared that I see him as being "just as evil" as my mother. So, yes, I agree. I can be harder to forgive the person who stood by and did nothing. In fact, I don't forgive that person. Short of a specific apology for their craven and cowardly acts of indifference I will withhold my forgiveness forever.Anna Valerioushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02537877317873251678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32237145.post-53693246429852747682008-04-01T11:10:00.000-06:002008-04-01T11:10:00.000-06:00My question is, is this info out there and I have ...<I>My question is, is this info out there and I have somehow missed it, or is it really missing from many books that discuss N?</I><BR/><BR/>I haven't seen this discussed in books on narcissism either. I have one possible explanation as to why this doesn't get focused on. <BR/><BR/>It is much easier to distance one self from a sibling, or cut them off completely, than it is to cut off a parent. I think there is much greater angst out there about the dilemma of having an evil narcissist parent because the demands of family, church and society stipulate that no parent is so bad (short of being convicted of murder) that you are justified in cutting them off. There is much less pressure to keep a sibling in your life. With today's mobile society it can be quite easy to put geographical distance between yourself and a troublesome sibling. The geographical distance can easily disguise an emotional zone of safety that you've constructed for yourself. People seem to be satisfied when you state, "I hardly ever see my sibling because they live 2,000 miles away." People will nod understandingly and carry on, usually without a lecture. <BR/><BR/>While large geographical distances may explain to most people's satisfaction why you don't see your sibling, it doesn't hold as true for parents. People still assume you should keep in touch by phone, letter and periodic visits with parents despite distance. So because there is much less expectation in society that siblings will remain close all their lives there is less sibling abuse going on after sibs reach adulthood. <BR/><BR/>This is just a guess, but I do think it is at least somewhat valid. Since there is no Biblical command to "honor your sibling" there are few justifications or clubs for people to use to force adult siblings to stay in contact. With the greatly lessened societal expectation in this regard, there is less psychological upheaval in adults who have had abusive siblings. I think this may be why the professionals have overlooked the problems that narcissistic siblings create. In the 'mob family' model that I've talked about before, it can be much more difficult to extricate from an abusive family dynamic. Sometimes gaining distance from a sibling can be very difficult depending on how your family is structured. <BR/><BR/>Maybe someday the literature on malignant narcissism will examine the problem of MN siblings who torment other siblings. Until then, everything that applies to MN in general can be applied to this relationship. Just because this particular dynamic isn't looked at specifically that doesn't mean there isn't help out there. Whether the MN is your parent, your boss, your spouse, your child...how you deal with MN is pretty much the same across the board.Anna Valerioushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02537877317873251678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32237145.post-87654250115778684622008-04-01T10:48:00.000-06:002008-04-01T10:48:00.000-06:00Several of you have brought up your observations o...Several of you have brought up your observations of the apparent undermining of intelligence of persons who have acted as N appeasers for years. I think there is much evidence to support this conclusion. It is also true that the Ns themselves lose intelligence over time. The mind is designed to work according to truth. Reality is the bedrock of mental and emotional health. If you spend a lifetime defining lies and fantasy as being 'truth' the mind will cease to function well, or at all, at some point.Anna Valerioushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02537877317873251678noreply@blogger.com