...it was my mother's more emotional, verbal form of abuse that scarred me most deeply. She indulged in a particular kind of soul murder...
Those of us raised by a malignant narcissist mother certainly can understand what Erin is describing.
I won't be entertaining heated defenses of feminism in the comments section. Keep the comments confined to the point of this article...that women are just as capable of being abusers as men are. And women may very well be more damaging in their form of abuse because they understand the nuances of emotional and verbal slaughter and have more access to their children to carry out their abuses.
Read it and weep:
27 comments:
Thank you for your blog; I found it a month or two back and added you to my RSS feed and am happy to see you're still posting.
Re this post. Your last sentence ('And women may very well be...') brought to mind a quote from my favorite book, A TREE GROWS IN BROOKLYN, where a young woman finds herself pregnant out of wedlock and the women in her boyfriend's family dissuade him from marrying her, even though he wants to:
"Oh, women are tricky. We know. We are women. You are good and tender-hearted. You take her word for it that you are the man. She lies. Don't be tricked, my son, don't be tricked, our brother. If you must marry, marry a good girl, one who won't sleep with you without the priest saying the words that make it right. If you marry this girl, you are no longer my son; you are no longer our brother. You'll never be sure whether the child is yours. You will worry while you are at your work. You'll wonder who slips into your bed beside her after you have left in te morning. Oh yes, my son, our brother, that is how women do. We know. We are women. We know how they do.
I agree that women can be at least equal if not more damaging because:
- their abuse can often go under the radar longer and more completely then the average 'style' of an abusive male, which generally tends to be more open.
- more people are suspicious of males then females, and more likely to believe more "obvious" signs of abuse. People with extremely cunningly verbally abusive mothers can feel completely disbelieved, or not see what is happening to them on your average "signs of abuse" list, and so they think their abuse is not real or not as bad. When in reality it is just as bad but more INVISIBLE, like carbon monoxide poisoning.
- even when they are not openly physically abusive themselves - like many more men are known to be, they can allow or set up situations where their children are physically harmed and endangered by other people. Or they withhold medical care and allow or cause other hardships, which is nothing more then covert but genuine physical abuse. This type of physical abuse is actually much harder to pin down or complain about then being hit is.
- they cunningly enlist and entwine and enmesh their victims as protectors and confidantes, something a male would generally have a harder time doing
- when they abuse teen or adult males, there is a huge stigma against the male for coming forward or complaining or getting help
- they can play the 'helpless female card' and the "mother card": both powerful and effective
I say all this, having directly experienced a very emotionally cunning male N myself, so I know that some men are also capable of great subtlety in their abuses. I have also met a really bluntly uncunning female N once [very unsuccessful in scoring NS, pathetic really]. But still, N women by far seem to more often be capable of vast subtleties, and to boot they have an ongoing gender pass from society that men simply don't get ever. Add the "motherhood pass", and the combo is truly horrible for a defenseless child.
Oh - and welcome back Anna!! Hope things have been well!
I have just recently went NC with the egg donor. NM is just too good of a name for her! I sometimes refer to her as the evil N, because I can bring myself to use the M due to the fact she NEVER was one. In some ways she is worse then the monster that hurt me when I was young because she is suppose to protect me and not compare her ex-friend kicking her out to a monster hurting her daughters. She actually thinks it is the same thing and told one of my Sisters that recently. Her invalidation of my child abuse is worse than all her verbal abuse and physical abuse. To realize that she is truly evil was hard to accept, but sometimes the truth hurts and healing can be painful too, but necessary. I believe that overall we were created equal, thus abusive women are just as evil as abusive men. The only difference when that evil person is your own Mother it just takes it to a whole new level of hell.
May I add your blog to my blog? I just started blogging and I think your blog would be beneficial to others. Here is mine if you want to take a look. It is about my journey to freedom from an evil parent.
http://dealingwithtoxicpeople.blogspot.com/
I never knew that feminism was about male bashing. I thought it was about liberating us from our own self-imposed limitations about what we can do. I guess I never really learned much about it.
Since learning about narcissism, I've discovered that there is no such thing as racism or misogyny, it's ALL narcissism. Those labels are used by narcissists to scapegoat one group or another and try to justify their hatred. The truth is that they hate ALL HUMANITY. If they were to finally eradicate any one group that they rail against, they would just move on to the next one. By scapegoating any one group they also accomplish that well known trick of narcissists: persecution by proxy. They can rally simple minded people into hating any one group so that they don't have to hate alone.
can I get an amen?
glad to see you post again anna :)
I definitely had a narcissist mother. When I was in college I hated my stepfather, who was more overtly abusive verbally. My mother, however, did nothing.
When I left the state and got my masters degree, that's when the real venom came out of my mother. She got nastier and nastier, sabotaging my graduate recital and always digusted with me whenver I came home to visit. So I stopped visiting.
I really feel that now she is the dominant N and that my stepdad is the subserviant one. She complains about him to me all the time. I never thought I would actually feel a little sorry for him.
What is interesting is that I can see my mom getting worse with age. As I've read in other N blogs, she'll probably end up with dementia and/or Alzeheimer's.
It's funny...my grandmother, who verbally and probably physically abused my mom as a youngster is totally in another world now, totally demented and irrational.
while I am a bit of a feminist myself I am going to paraphrase something Kathy Krajco always said -
examine feminism WITH YOUR BRAIN ON
Just because she's a feminist doesn't mean she's not also a destructive narcissist.
Hugs!
"examine feminism WITH YOUR BRAIN ON"
Well, that should apply with everything. Heh.
For those whose comments didn't get approved:
My posting a link to an article isn't a sign that I'm "back". I've not got the time to deal with things I don't want to deal with.
Here are the facts: I do not have to defend Erin Pizzey's position or statements. I don't have to defend an article simply because I put a link to this article on my blog. Why don't I? Because it isn't a difficult article to understand. I don't have to host comments which I don't want to host and, no, it doesn't somehow reduce my credibility simply because your comment wasn't approved. I have some ability to perceive what certain types of comments will be likely to generate more heat than light. I am following my hunch when I don't approve a comment. Deal with it.
It should be obvious from the comments that did get approved that it is possible to understand Mrs. Pizzey's angle. If you don't get it, I'm sorry. It isn't my job to explain the obvious.
Note to Skylar: No, my last comment wasn't in response to you.
Grizelda,
I cannot edit comments in any way therefore I cannot change your name. If you want to resubmit your comment without your real name I would be happy to publish it.
God bless.
Wow, that was a hard article to read. But she's right. Most people just don't believe that women are capable of abuse, sometimes abuse that is so much more dangerous.
i think you are out of your MIND. the MAJORITY of MEN are NARCICISSTS, your mom is an EXCEPTION. 85% of ALL HOMICIDES are committed by men, 90% of all sexual violence, and men continue earn more money than women do and exploit masculine privilege to remain in power. i'm sorry, HOW MANY FEMALE PRESIDENTS HAS THE US HAD AGAIN? i know SOME WOMEN can be "evil" and "selfish" like your mom BUT IS MUCH MORE COMMON IN MEN! SORRY! the nature of a woman is to nurture and self-sacrifice, i'm sorry your mother had a screw loose.
Wow, honey. I think it's time to get your medication adjusted.
Elizabeth, it's impossible to gauge the percentages for so many reasons. But until you've been involved with the subtle and almost undetectable narcissism of a woman, you will never know about it. The subtle attacks are delivered with an expression of love or concern.
An example: A woman's children come home with report cards. She knows her children are very good students but she knows that there are other good students in each of their classes. Instead of focusing on the acheivements of her children, the first questions out of her mouth are to ask about those other good students. Who did better than you? How much better? Then she will follow up by comparing her children to each other, trying to seed envy, competition and rivalry among her children. All of this is done casually, you'd barely register it. Until you know better.
The difference is, when a man beats you, you know where the pain is, who gave it to, why you have it. When a woman slyly devalues you at a vulnerable age and negates your self-worth, you never even know you were hit. You're crippled and you don't even know it.
That's why people view men as being more narcissistic. They come at you with a frontal assault. Women are covert and often deliver the psychic blows under cover of nurturing. It's frightening because there are no statistics. People don't go to the emergency room with a psychic trauma - which they never even knew they had.
All this has nothing to do with feminism. it just has to do with how critical it is to recognize narcissism wherever you see it.
Elizabeth's comment is the quintessential example to illustrate what the author of the article I linked to is identifying as the problem. The finger of blame being laid at the feet of men for societal ills and problems with women always being the victim and never (or very, very rarely) the perp. Feminism is the cause of this divide and it isn't helping people identify the real problem. I hope that you can all clearly see through this glittering example what Erin Pizzey was saying. Because Erin Pizzey cares about children and families she has come to despise feminism because feminism has shifted the locus of blame in a way that hurts them. Men are not the problem. Human evil is the problem and human evil can be found in men, women and children. And the anecdotal evidence is showing, time and time again, that human evil shows up in both sexes in about the same percentages. How that evil manifests can vary according to sex, but its baleful effects are usually felt most by the children. She based her opinion on her own childhood, but she made clear that her years of running women's shelters opened her eyes to the fact that women are abusive in about the same numbers as men are. This is essential for people to understand if children are going to be better protected from abuse. Because of society's belief that women are somehow better than men, i.e. more caring, nurturing and compassionate, that it must mean that the woman isn't the problem when there is a problem in the home. This thinking is an archaic vestige of feminism and must be reformed if children are to be protected.
The thousands of comments over the whole of this blog testify to the reality that women manifest in huge frequency as malignant narcissists. It is real. It is undeniable except to the ignorant. Human evil is the problem and feminism pretends far too often that human evil only manifests in men. This failing of feminism was what was being addressed by this article.
wow. Elizabeth's comment is the kind if thing that embarasses me as a woman. All my years of learning and wanting wisdom, all my hard work and reputation to be a wise, good person. Some idiot comes along with a childish, foolish, selfish comment and makes all women look stupid again in the eyes of others. Grow up.
What does the number of female presidents the US has ever had have to do with the number of female narcissists in the world??? Um, yeah, I know just as many evil women as I do men, and both sexes are equally represented in my world.
It would be helpful if you provided actual quotes or source the posts you think are conflicting so I can see context for the statements. Here's my consistent message: narcissists create themselves. Choice by choice they make themselves just as we all do. They make conscious choices to hurt others. It is also true that what we do over a life time becomes habitual. And we all know that habits can become very ingrained and difficult to break (if one is inclined to try). They can also become almost invisible to us. Especially patterns of behavior and thinking. Over time we become what we do and think and it can become next to impossible to change those patterns.
I believe you are right Anna. Our behavior affects our thinking just as our thinking affects our behavior. The sociopath I was with, lied constantly, non-stop, to everyone. I think that each time he lied it increased his delusions of paranoia. Now he thinks he must "disappear" where no one will find him. That's what he says anyway, he could be lying. :)
Your blog discussing the topic of "Malignant Narcissism" is very insightful. I have a question. In your commentary on the characteristic behaviors of an "MN", you made mention that these people "freely choose" their narcissistic conduct. . & yet, I also read in your writing on this subject that the "MN" is seemingly unable to help himself/herself when it comes to the way they carry on in life, no matter how damaging their behaviors are. This strikes me as a conflict on the topic of narcissism. Could you explain how the "MN" can make a deliberate choice to behave this way even though they (for some strange reason) cannot help who & how they are? Thank you for this blog & the help it offers.
I am sad to say that I completely get that article. It is very disturbing but somehow reassuring to me because my mother was every bit as abusive and cruel, played mind games, and tried to play us children in manipulating our father. I never thought in a million years that I would find another person on earth who would understand this type of damage. It is a releif to find this site but also sad that so many childhoods had to be ruined...and for many of us carried on into adulthood.
Just a thought about men having/not having the corner on abuse and narcissism: Mothers have a significant affect on their childrens' social and emotional development. More than one serial killer has been identified as having been severly abused by a (seemingly) MN.
I have only recently become acquainted with the definition of malignant narcissism and I believe that both my mother and my current girlfriend are malignant narcissists. From my perspective I would prefer physical abuse to the constant barrage of psychic abuse I have suffered at their hands. My self-worth was totally annihilated as a child when I began to understand that NOTHING I did or did not do could really affect how my mother felt about me. Nothing was ever good enough and one by one as my brothers and I became teenagers with wills of our own it was readily apparent that we were no longer useful to my mother because we were no longer convenient sources of NS.
Now I am struggling with a live-in MN and wondering what I can do. Just this past weekend I had to suffer through another narcissistic rage episode brought on by a perceived slight when someone dared to question her ability to drive after consuming several drinks. She then proceeded to drive innocent bystanders home at 90+ mph and rationalized this behavior because "they upset me by accusing me of being drunk". When I tried to point out that that is not acceptable behavior no matter what someone says she threatened to kill herself and told me that it was all my fault and I would have to live with her death. Much to her chagrin I have learned a lot about MN by reading and studying her behavior and I knew she would not really do it. I wouldn't let her guilt me like I normally do and stood my ground. I'm just not sure I can take it anymore. She had another rage two or three weeks ago which ended with her being arrested but I convinced them to drop the charges. I'm still lost and confused but the one thing I do know is that female narcissists can be just as evil as male narcissists. I feel like a broken person that cannot be fixed because of my mother and I ended up right back in the hands of another MN.
Chris,
Good for you. You've learned what these m-fr's are about and you were able to use that knowledge to avoid being manipulated by your live-in MN. Can you leave her? What is stopping you? Are there kids involved? There is healing from being abused by MNs but it must happen away from them. You can't heal when you have one constantly inflicting their evilness on you.
Chris- Do I ever understand your statement about physical abuse being better to identify and deal with than emotional abuse. When my N ex-husband put his hands on me, it was almost a relief. I immediately filed for divorce, but made a quick and very helpful trip to a women's shelter.
However, when I left him, my MN disowned me and became the great defender of my ex, the victim. She followed the typical MN behavior of sympathizing with other N's in the abusive behavior aimed at the scapegoat, me.
It's been a horribly lonely road, complicated by the terminal cancer of my dad, which has brought my mother back into my life. I'm sure I will have to endure my mother's gracious inclusion of my ex-husband at his funeral.
Keep reading! I have found so much in this blog that has helped me to shore up my resolve. It's easy to feel and behave as if you don't have any power. But you DO. It lies in your willingness to walk away, even if others think you are wrong.
Thank you, Anna.
Chris,
I'm sorry for what you have, and are now going through. My best advice is read every inch of this blog - twice, three times! Knowlege is power. One of the major problems with growing up with this type of abuse is that you don't really know what your rights as a human being are, that being treated certin ways is unacceptable. That's something you will have to learn again and this blog is a great place to start. I know it was a God-send to me.
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